Right. However, the final form of the writeup isn't done yet, Greg and I are still wrangling some things, so I don't want to get too specific just yet. Also a lot of this is my own personal beliefs, and not (yet) part of the rules. Just keep these caveats in mind throughout all my answers...
> Would it be possible for the odd Heortling to have "Kolating Spiritist" as
> the religion portion of his homeland keyword? Or are the only folks who
are
> interested at all at that level the ones that proceed on to become
> practitioners. I'm thinking, for example, the son of a shaman who hasn't
yet
> decided if he's going to follow in his father's footsteps, and has only
been
> inculcated to the spiritist level?
Well, *most* people will have either a Soul (Theist) or Spirit (Animist) (or Essence for those Sorcerous types *spit*), and their choice of mode of worship is primarily dictated by that. There are scattered families of "Spirit-born" instead of "Soul-born", among the Heortlings and that's where you tend to see the practitioners and shamans.
> In this case it seems like he would have that same theoretical "communal"
> relationship to the storm pantheon. Or does the religion keyword assume a
> baseline that covers everyone?
Correct - "Worship Storm Tribe" is usable in both "Communal Theistic Worship" and "Spirtist Animist worship" of the Storm tribe. It covers all gods & spirits of the Storm tribe.
> Here's the real question. Can heortlings with the Communal Worshipper of
the
> Storm Pantheon take the five free charms that the Kolating spiritist
> (theoretical though he might be) would normally get?
It's *very* much story dependent. I'd require that he have a relationship with someone that can make those charms for him. Basically, that he be part of a "Spirit-Born" family, and we assume Dad or Uncle Kari made them for him. A typical heortling (say, Orlathi All Heortlings) wouldn't have access to someone like that.
Or does the Kolating
> Spiritist get to invoke their diety against 10W9 for divine aid?
No, Kolat don't play that. Divine Aid comes from Gods and Kolat is a Majestic Spirit. There is no "Divine Aid/Miracle" for Animists.
>Almost more
> importantly, do they know each others myths?
Yes - as much as any communal member knows myths. (Remember that one of the Heortling 28 Holy days, Good Winds Day, is dedicated to Kolat). They know that Kolat is a Son of Umath, so brother to Orlanth. They know that he is a spirit, not a god (and thus, "kinda wierd, you know", but he's at the same level of wierdness as, say, Heler from the enemy Water tribe or Elmal from the enemy Fire tribe). He fought the Monster Shaman Karjaken, and saved the Storm tribe from defeat at the hands of Spirits, etc. But they certainly have no knowledge of "cult secret information", just like they have no clue about what goes on in Humakt's Hall, or the Weaving Chamber, or any other "inner ceremonies".
Basically, all members of the Storm tribe have "Know Storm Pantheon Myths", and Kolatings are part of the Storm Pantheon.
> Or is this theoretical "communal" level of worship of Kolat just important
> in terms of "rights" to participate in getting charms from a practitioner,
> for example? Does the "spiritist" level for Kolatings just not exist? That
> is, does one move on from being a communal worshipper of the storm
pantheon,
> to being a practitioner of the Kolating practice? So there's no Core
> Practice from which to get tradition charms? Or is the core practice a
> "normal" practice in the sense that it has practice spirits in it only and
> not tradition spirits (I think you said something like this in the last
> discussion)?
Basically right.
> Generally, when a mix occurs, is there a full "tree" for each sort of
magic,
> or do the odd branches spread out from a single basic worship?
I don't think we can get *too* general here, and have to look at each religion as it comes up.
Heortling Animism does not have the full range of birth-to-death spirits that the Grazers or Praxians do. It's not a "full religion", it's truncated.
> >I semi-ranted to Greg (and he agreed) about the use of the word
"religion"
> >in HQ, since they way it is used is as a *solidly*
theist/animist/sorcerous
> >thing, but no religion is that way; they are all mixed (some more than
> >others - look at teshnos) I'd *like* to use the words "Theist", "Animist"
> >"Sorcerist"(?!?) to refer *only* to those people who have concentrated
> >their
> >magic to a particular Otherworld, and not refer to a "Theist Religion"
per
> >se.
>
> Yeah, that would have been a lot clearer (would have avoided many of the
> misunderstandings that I had with things previously). I think, however,
that
> it might be safe to say something like "Predominantly Theist" for a
religion
> like that of the Heortlings, no? In fact, depending on the answer to the
> question above, it might be important to have some sort of statement like
> this. For example, if you really can only take the Storm Pantheon Communal
> Worshipper with the Heortling keyword (indicating that the Kolating
> "tradition" charms are not generally available except to those who
dedicate
> to that portion of the religion), then I think it's safe to say that the
> Heortling relilgion is, culturally, essentially theist, with an animist
> branch or something. "Baseline Theist"?
[Modifier] Theist is fine for me, except that all religions are [Modified] [Religion]s, making the modifier an extra bit of verbage put on everything. You go from the Almost Pure-Theist Heortlings to the Really Mixed Teshnans. But trying to nail down where on the line you should put [Modifier] is a fool's game :-). I *certainly* don't want to see rules on what to call the modifier for a religion: "If there are at least 1/3, but no more than 1/2 spirits in the pantheon, then you should call it Ani-Theist" AGGH!
> Here's possibly a better question. Not having the book in front of me,
> what's the Teshnan standard religion keyword? Communal Worshipper of the
> Teshnan Pantheon or something?
The Teshnos Pantheon is listed as a "Common Magic religion" and is extremely varied.
If so, a reading of this that makes sense to
> me is that one starts with the ability to call on any of the theistic
> dieties for divine aid, probably at 10w9, and the same with the other
beings
> but at a penalty for misapplied worship.
You can ask a "Sorcerous God" for a Miracle (which is basically the same thing as asking for Divine Aid, but with one level more difficulty - Specific Diety: 10w3; Pantheon, Specific Saint: 10W6; The One God: 10W9), but spirits don't answer pleas for divine aid. They simply don't have that function.
And only Initiate/Devotees/Orderlies can call for aid from a *specific* entity - communal worshippers throw out a plea and hopefully *someone* replies to it, and it might not be who you expect, "We had a fire, and we asked for aid, but we never expected Fire-eating Misquitoes to appear, we kinda expected a rainstorm..."
>The Myths covers all of the beings,
> but, for example, would cover spirits as an improvised "Know Spirits"
again
> with the misapplied worship penalties.
Not sure exactly what you mean with "Know Spirits", but if it is just knowledge of what spirits are in the pantheon, then it is a mundane knowledge, not a Magical ability, and so doesn't get hit with Misapplied Worship.
And there is no need to penalise this anyay, - if the deeds of the Spirit (or God, or whatever they call saints) were important enough to get into the myths, then you'll know them just as well as you know the myths of any other being, no matter it's Otherworld origin. However, knowing the deeper myths of a being is either impossible ("You *must* know 'Myths of Vai Madar Sa' to know this bit of information"), or worthy of a hefty improv penalty.
Then, if a player wants his character
> to be a practitioner of one of the spirits listed, he skips "spiritist"
and
> just becomes a practitioner of that practice. So, again, no tradition
charms
> for him, but he retains his ability to call on the gods of the pantheon
for
> divine intervention.
There may well be "Tradition" spirits as part of the religion - it would depend on the makeup of the "Pantheon". If there was a large animist component, then Tradition Spirits are to be expected. heck, until we look deeply at other religions, we can';t say for certain that there aren't Traditions in them.
> Does this sound right to you? Or have I missed it again? In any case, this
> all sounds like a lot of fun. The mixed religions seem like they would
give
> you a lot of options for complex character belief.
Sure, at least as long as you don't go all 30%er (or 60%er) and get tied down to a particular entity.
RR
C'est par mon ordre et pour le bien de l'Etat que le porteur du pr�sent a
fait ce qu'il a fait.
- Richelieu
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