Rob disagreed with my email so much he replied three
times... Sounds a bit like getting a divorce in Viking
society.
Okay Rob, the example of a person doing a caretaker
chieftain role was an example, and only one of many I
could have given.
How about:
"The F**king Namoldings are raiding us continually, we
need a warrior in charge, not some farmer!" Up steps a
Vinga or Orlanth Adventurous candidate, continue
example as before, including learning the three
Allfather feats as separate abilities.
"The clan's ancestors says we haven't paid enough
attention to Heler, that's why the rains have failed.
Let's have a chieftain that cares about the rains." Up
steps a Helamakt candidate, continue example as
before, including learning the three Allfather feats
as separate abilities and move the chieftain's stead 3
miles up a hill to be closer to the clouds.
He also goes on to say:
"The solution is to create A Vinga Dar proper, not
just give her the Dar subcult, because thats been
found wanting. Been found seriously wanting."
It hasn't in my campaign, and I didn't have to stretch
the rules that far either*. All the bits and bobs you
need to create and lead a clan or tribe comes from the
Dar subcult.
Another thought: Whats wrong with doing the a
heroquest to gain the abilities you lack? That's the
way theists learn feats and affinities anyway. Another
example:
Initiation into Dar means performing the "Orlanth
forms the storm tribe" heroquest. Before a
non-allfather initiate goes on this heroquest, he has
to perform an "Orlanth becomes a father" heroquest in
which, well bugger I, he earns an Allfather affinity.
You may feel you need a Vinga/Heler/Humakt/"Uncle Tom
Umath and all" Dar subcult of all the major deities,
but if you can't be arsed doing that then there are
other solutions.
He goes on to say:
"not a very elegant solution. Next we will have the
female 'King' have a male proxy to cover the things
she
can't!!"
I can't see where that logic comes from. I suggest
someone be allowed to learn three feats and this leads
to some sort of proxy rulership? Nah, it's completely
confuesd me. I'd have said it's elegant in that (a) it
requires absolutely no change to the rules and (b)
doesn't require any change to what's in Thunder Rebels
and Storm Tribe.
Cheers,
Ash
*All you have to accept is that Initiates can learn
their own subcult feats the same way they can learn
other subcults feats, see previous conversations on
the subject.
- Rob <robert_m_davis_at_...> wrote:
>
>
> --- In HeroQuest-rules_at_yahoogroups.com, Ashley
> Munday
> <aescleal_at_b...> wrote:
> > As far as I can remember, provided you're not a
> > Devotee, you can learn the affinities and feats of
> > other sub-cults, even from other aspects. As soon
> as
> > you become a Devotee you have to bin your
> non-aspect
> > magic, and, although I can't remember seeing this
> > stated explicitly anywhere, by implication this
> would
> > include membership of a non-aspect sub-cult.
> >
> > So, to take a concrete example: Merik's an
> Initiate of
> > Destor Adventurous and somehow he gets raised by
> the
> > clan moot to chieftain. He elects to stay an
> Initiate
> > of Orlanth Adventurous (he's "only looking after
> the
> > clan while the real chieftain is away") but adds
> > membership of Dar as well.
>
> not the same thing Ash. What we are talking of here
> is a woman
> being the chieftan full time, not a caretaker. We
> currently have
> no published solution.
>
> The solution is to create A Vinga Dar proper, not
> just
> give her the Dar subcult, because thats been found
> wanting.
> Been found seriously wanting.
>
> The answer is to have a new aspect to Vinga where
> the
> person gets what a man would get in the society.
> There is no rule that says that can't happen, its
> just
> not been published.
>
> Jane, why don't you do something and submit it to
> Issaries?
>
>
>
> > He would probably learn the
> > sub-cult affinity (Lead Clan II RC) as part of his
> > Initiation. Although he can't learn the Allfather
> > affinity (it's not from a sub cult of his aspect)
> I
> > can't see a reason why he couldn't learn the Dar
> > specific Allfather feats as standalone magical
> > abilities.
>
> not a very elegant solution. Next we will have the
> female
> 'King' have a male proxy to cover the things she
> can't!!
>
>
> > From what I remember of Thunder Rebels and Storm
> Tribe
> > (which isn't a lot, I haven't got them to hand)
> > worshipping Vinga is a lot like a bloke
> worshipping
> > Orlanth Adventurous.
>
> spot on.
>
> > So, Vingans look like Orlanth Adventurous
> worshippers,
> > except without the option to Initiate into the
> Orlanth
> > Allfather aspect.
>
> Why not I say. But a Vinga version of it of course.
> jane?
>
>
> > <wild_speculation>
> > However, while they might not be able to Initiate
> > directly into the Allfather aspect of Orlanth,
> they
> > might be able to Initiate into the Ernalda Aspect
> that
> > provides leadership magic. I'd let it happen in my
> > game, but then I'm a soft-touch.
> > </wild_speculation>
>
> Vingans are special because they don't follow
> Ernalda. They
> are the loyal daughter of Orlanth. The runic
> assosciations
> I think make this supposition a non starter.
>
> > Hope this sheds some light,
> >
> > Ash
> >
> > PS: In Kallyr's case, she could have stayed an
> > Initiate of Vanganth after she became an Initiate
> of
> > Dar. Presumably she didn't want the additional
> > cocommitmentn her time of worshipping two
> ssub-cults
>
> Jane? Any view on this? Is it just becasue it was
> not included in the write ups - bearing in mind that
> Kallyr Gathering Thunder is merely a tweaked OiD -
> and
> I IMO that is flawed anyway. YKWV and all that
> (mine
> does ever so slightly, and purley for special
> effects
> reasons!)
>
> Regards
> Rob
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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