Re: The Stationary Lightbringers Quest

From: David Weihe <blerg2_at_...>
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 13:59:56 -0800 (PST)


Jane Williams wrote:
> > Think of a Mass, or a healing ceremony or a Sun Dance,
> > or a May Day, or a baptism.
>
> Mass - no magical effect I know of, nor any described
> by the bods around here who do such things (I asked
> once, they were quite offended by the idea).

Most Christians don't like the word "magic", but in a theoretical sense, all of Christianity can be viewed, at least by a non-believer, as Theuric magic. Thus, in Acts Of The Apostles, a Simon (I think, of Damascus), a local magician of note, offers money to (I think) Peter to learn how to do exorcisms as well as he does, and later tries to use Peter's ceremony in one.

Ask your "bods" if the bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Christ, in any sense. Most practicing Catholics are told to believe that it does, in every sense (except that the wine doesn't taste salty). My own Lutherans believe it does in lesser sense (no physical transformation, but if there was something where His Blood was needed, the distributed wine would do just as well - a shame that we don't do many exorcisms to test it :-). Many other denominations are told that it is just a symbol, although I doubt that any refer to their communion services as Masses (not that Lutherans do, either. We just know what our equivalent is).

In Glorantha, "mere" ceremonies would have effects running from Lutheran to Catholic, but Blessing The Host would never be mere symbolism, except to those outside the pantheon, and maybe even outside of the magic system (I expect that Orlanthi feel something happening in Dara Happan services, even if they don't get as much even as normal DH pantheon worshippers). It would probably take what we think of as a full HQ to get the wine to taste like blood.

> Baptism - chance to show off new baby and posh frocks,
> while gathering all relatives together and expecting
> arguments. Never heard of any effect beyond that
> expected by any participant, especially the parents.

So in your denomination, YHWH isn't paying any attention to it? In mine, He accepts the baptised into His family as adopted children. Definitely similar to some Gloranthan magics.

> May Day - dance round maypole by little girls in
> pretty frocks, charge a few quid entry to make money
> for the village hall. May possibly have meant
> something once, no-one participating is too sure what.

Rather like Pelandan ceremonies done to dead gods in the Entekosiad, I expect. Or going to see a Hopi Cachina ceremony, for most non-Hopi on the list.

> This is the real world. Ceremonies may possibly take
> place in what were once holy spots, but more likely
> not. You want a wedding ceremony, you hire a hotel,
> not a church. It's cheaper. And this is the world
> where the language we are using is defined, remember?

Weddings are just civil contracts, for most Protestants (and in most nominally Protestant, anti-clerical, or non-clerical countries). OTOH, try marrying a Catholic to a Jew or Moslem before the Reformation, and most people of either side would have called such a marriage wrong, or even non-existent. I do not know, but I expect that statement true for the Orthodox Christians of the period, as well.



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