At the risk of taking the word 'orthogonal' too literaly why not
treat contests with non-opposed goals individually and resolve them
seperately? (c.f. unrelated contests)
Thanks,
- John
>
> --- In HeroQuest-rules_at_yahoogroups.com, "Ian Cooper"
> <ian_hammond_cooper_at_> wrote:
> >
> > --- In HeroQuest-rules_at_yahoogroups.com, "nichughes2001"
> > <nicolas.h_at_> wrote:
> >
> > > Along these lines I would like to be able to seamlessly
> > > narrate the classical tragedy situation that occurs when
> > > both abilities "win"
> > >
> > > So the Silver Tongued person is clubbed and lying in a
> > > pool of blood AND the wielder of the Big Club is
> > > persuaded that the smooth talker is really their one
> > > best hope.
> > >
> > > A single simple contest struggles to capture this, as does an
> > > extended contest.
> >
> > Could you explain why in more depth? It is not something I find,
> > so I am curious as to whether I am misunderstanding your issues.
>
> If I may attempt to translate, I think that Nic is bringing up the
> difference between oppositional and orthogonal intents. HeroQuest
> mechanics work well for oppositional intents, but less well for
> orthogonal ones.
>
> For instance, Alice wants to protect the orphans under her care
> while Bob wants to kidnap them. These two intents are clearly in
> opposition and there are only two possible outcomes: Alice wins or
> Bob wins. HQ provides a mechanism for resolving this, by using a
> conflict which produces one winner and one loser.
>
> If we change the situation slightly, things get more complex. Let's
> say that Alice is trying to persuade Bob to free the orphans, but
> Bob is simply trying to kill Alice. These two intents are
> orthogonal and there are four possible outcomes:
>
> * Alice and Bob both succeed: Bob kills Alice, but he then gives the
> orders to free the orphans;
>
> * Alice succeeds, Bob fails: Alice flees with the orphans under her
> care;
>
> * Alice fails, Bob succeeds: Alice dies and her words were as
> nothing;
>
> * Alice and Bob both fail: Alice is carted off with the kidnapped
> orphans.
>
> HeroQuest doesn't provide an easy way of handling such situations.
> How do you get all four possible outcomes from a single conflict
> resolution? Some guidance on what to do when faced with such
> orthogonal intents in conflicts would be nice.
>
> It's slightly easier if there's a third party that can be
> introduced, such as Alice trying to persuade Bob's commander to free
> the orphans while Bob does his stuff. A contest between Alice and
> the commander to determine the orphans' fate, another between Alice
> and Bob to determine Alice's. But if there's no third party, it's a
> problem.