Alright, we were talking about different things here. The Puma's Shapechange ability wasn't at the center of attention for me. I was talking about the distinction Roderick made between Puma people being animists and them being spiritists. His statement was: ("All puma people are *animists*.[...] Animism is the style of magic [...] "Spiritist" is a rank within that magical path") To me, this sounded like he was saying that being an animist *does not* automatically mean you're a spiritist. However, since the higher ranks include everything the spiritist gets / can do, the Puma is always spiritist. This is, of course, only true unless the player specifies something else, as in your example, Mike. From my POV, everyone was right and I was unclear in expressing what I meant, so sorry for the confusion :).
> The point is that the natural magic is part of their ancestry, but
their
> culture doesn't 100% have to be the wandering Puma People culture
listed in
> the book.
Though not what I was wondering about originally, this is interesting. Makes a lot of sense to me, and I actually wondered once or twice why HQ didn't allow for a mixing of homeland keywords. I see now I was thinking to strictly in terms of adhering to strict rules, which is a tad bit stupid :D. Been playing DSA (the dark eye, a German RPG kinda D&D-ish but more simulationist) for too long now... I won't allow this kind of mixing for the first batch of characters, though. Merely because I'd like to get a feel for the game & mechanics before going exotic.
> I think that almost everyone allows both of these [common magic &
> specialized magic] sans listing in narrative.
Alright, about the specialized magic kw I heard different answers, so it's just gonna be my personal preference. I'll go with your opinion there, because I'd like to have lots of magic in Glorantha.
> >It does strike me as a bit unfair / unbalanced though, that a player
> >who wants their char to differ from the usual in regards to their
> >magic has to specify that difference.
>
> [HQ enforces players to delineate how their characters are exceptions]
Okay, I *did* lose sight of that, as Jane and you have both spotted. I could live happily with just this explanation. However, what you said next got me a little confused again.
> Further, it can be easily argued that a specialized magic keyword is
worth
> it's weight in words. They're generally much more powerful than the
"base
> level" keywords.
Now what do you consider a "specialized magic keyword" (SM kw), and what is a "base level keyword" (BL kw)? Is "spiritist of the great ancestor tradition" not a SM kw? Because that's what a Puma would get for free. And this in turn means the player gets something "powerful" for free and specifying the char to belong to another religion doesn't *gain* you anything. Except for roleplay. And that's what it's about, so I'm not complaining about this anymore - just a bit confused by what you mean or not, Mike. (I do of course see that you gain a lot by specifiying a higher rank - be it within the "normal" religion of your homeland, or in any other.)
> The slight incentive not to list such a keyword is fun,
> IMO, because it means characters who are "undecided" to some extent
in terms
> of their beliefs. They can, at least, choose to join some cult or
> organization belonging to their religion later (if not some
organization
> belonging to another). Moreover I think that a balance of characters
who are
> less into magic makes sense.
Okay, I yet have to fully internalize the concept of a major, dominant religion and the individual belonging to one or more cults or organizations in that religion. I think I understand how it works, but I tend to forget it. One of my basic assumptions was that if someone is "not that magically interested", he'd have _only_ common magic. Thinking about this now, this doesn't make much sense. It would mean you don't belong to a major religion at all, which I think is rare (though not impossible, of course). Might this be my fundamental mistake?
> >There's no real reason in the game *mechanics*
> >to one system over the other, is there?
>
> A warrior in a theist cult has ready access to feats,
> and can improvise a lot, but doesn't have the kick from releasing a
fetish,
> or using an essence. Then again, neither does he have to deal with
> recalcitrant spirits, or have to attune to essences either.
>
> No, HQ doesn't (for the most part) incentivize any one sort of magic
over
> another. What it does is to give you an in-game differentiation
between the
> sorts of magic that the different cultures use.
Good, I can live with that. I was wondering if I just had overlooked something obvious.
>
> >You can always fill the gaps
> >in your abilities with common magic from one place or the other.
>
> Weeel, keep this in mind. Common magic abilities have to be raised
> individually. For the other methods, there are ways to "mass raise"
ability
> levels up more quickly for groups of abilities.
Oh, right. This is is an important difference, thanks for pointing it out.
> But, yeah, there's really no limitation on what the character can
have for
> magic. Heck, skip the common magic, and just give them natural magic
> abilities that do whatever you like.
Faulty assumptions on my part, again. I thought Natural Magic is so powerful you should limit the players' access to these abilities. I guess in actual play such abilities will only bring flavor to the experience, not detract any by unbalancing the game mechanics.
> In all specialized cases, more importantly, the character has
relationships
> to people and beings involved in these organizations.
Coming from an RPG system where relations are about as important as the color of your eyes, I still have a hard time figuring in the importance of relationships in HQ. My first player having an animist char will definitely help in that area :) Again, thanks for pointing this out to me.
> Interestingly I don't mention concentration to players who don't take
> specialized magic, and so, again, 50% of my characters aren't
concentrated.
Again, by "specialized magic" you mean devotees, practitioners etc?
> That said, I also don't charge double for non-concentration, and
generally
> have an entirely alternate rule for handling concentration (I just
make it
> an ability like any other). So nobody would have reason to complain.
In this
> way I hope to make concentration an "in-game" sort of decision again.
I don't understand what you're doing here. What does Concentration *do* in your game, then? Is it just a prerequisite needed for higher ranks / in some cults?
> >Isn't it a situation that regularily
> >comes up in chargen? Someone narrates/lists an ability that's clearly
> >beyond the mundane skills. How have you people coped with that?
>
> That's a fascinating question. For most players sticking to the
options in
> the book, this just won't come up. That is, they see common magic as an
> option, but don't even know that natural magic exists unless they've
read
> the essay.
Alright, the following question will probably have an obvious answer and I will once again see I haven't thought all the way through a problem. My player specifies in her narrative that her character, a Puma spiritist hunter, "is able to hear her ancestors voices". This of course fits in with her Great Ancestors religion and everything. But what exactly do we do with it?
I'd want her to be able to keep it once her character concentrates her magic, which will happen pretty soon in play, but not during chargen. But from what I've read, this means the ability in question would have to be either a charm, or a natural magic ability. I don't quite see where it might be a charm, as it's not some spirit's ability used by the char, but rather something the char herself can *do*. So natural magic?
Oh well, my next step should be to just start playing. Luckily the exam which kept my gf from being able to play is due this monday, so I hope I'll be able to put all the new knowledge to work next week :). Thanks to everyone who's replied so far, even if my answers came a bit slow!
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