Re: wergild; better followers

From: Ian Cooper <ian_hammond_cooper_at_...>
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 15:53:33 -0000

We might want to move this to the Herowars list. I've kept it here to advise peple following this thread. Feel free to reply there.

Me
> > I suspect that The Hidden Gale members have probably long
> > since been declared outlaw by the lunars, so they would have no
> > weregild and could be killed with impunity.

David Dunham
> I'm sure they are outlaws according to the Lunars, but being a
Lunar
> outlaw does not have anything to do with your Heortling wergild! It
> would have to do with Lunar law, and probably deprives you of your
> right to a trial or to certain types of punishment.

My assumption about weregild is that the process works as follows:

1. Find my local juror and present my claim
2. Find a juror that represents the defendant
3. Go to the lowest level of court with jurisdiction over me and the person I am claiming for (i.e. with a clan the wapentake or moot (probably meets 4 times amonth), between clans the tribal moot (probably meets twice a year), between tribes the confederation/kingdom court (once a year?). Fix a date for the case to be heard.
4. On appointed date for hearing (or later historically the defendant got a few chances to turn up) present my claim, swearing any oaths. If the defendant does not deny it successfully (might not want to the punishment for non open-killing is death) the court adjuticates the amount to be paid (incuding any reductions for fines against those I am caliming for for their actions).
5. Either the defendant pays within a court appointed time frame or the jurors go round to sieze the weregild on my behalf (or enslave the defendant if he cannot pay)

To me this would present a number of issues here. Is there a court that has jurisdiction over the members of the Hidden Gale and me. If there is how heavily infulenced has it become by Lunar sympathizers who might respect the lunar declaration of outlawry. Do members of the HiddenGale want to pursue weregild. You don't have to. They may prefer blood vengance instead.

The lunars reorganised the composition of a number of Sartar tribes and declared a number of tribes outlaw as a result of Starbrow's rebellion. My assumption there is that the Lunars were implying that the members of those tribes could be attacked, killed or enslaved by others with impunity because they no longer had resort to the judicial process to air the grievances with outsiders. While their judicial systems probably still function within the tribe I suspect that the kingdom level courts are controlled by the Lunars (through their puppet king) who will enforce that declaration of outlawry. So where the lowest common court between ther parties is the kingdom level, those declared outlaw by the Lunars have no recourse to the law. Of course this is most interesting at a macro level (I suspect some of those tribal population falls are due to slave raids against these tribes, by other tribes who then sell their captives to the Lunars or Grazers), but can come into play. I like the feel of the Lunars subverting the local legal system to their ends rather than imposing a second structure. A lot of the Lunars may well be Tarshites who legal system undoubtedly has similiar antecedents.

Whether or not there is a court that would acept the Hidden Gale clan's suit is of course a question of politics :-)

Ian
PS You don't get to appeal to a higher court, just to trial by combat and that is to do with establishing guilt not levels of compensation.