Re: Animists and ancestors

From: Nils Weinander <nils_w_at_...>
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 10:50:51 +0200


Peter:
>
> > It's been convincingly argued that ancestor worshipping
> > animist traditions don't practice integration as that
> > would put the ancestor out of circulation. However, isn't
> > the same true for fetishes: if old grandpa is caught in a
> > fetish, another descendant who tries to contact him should
> > fail.
>
> Most ancestors should be persuaded to enter a medicine
> bundle by means other than spirit combat (i.e. persuasion,
> bribery etc. which are mentioned in the rule).

I agree completely, it's not the method of getting the spirit into the fetish I have a problem with.

> Only for evil
> ancestors would anybody think of using spirit combat to
> make a lasting fetish. Thus one would normally find a
> ancestor in a one-use fetish.

Indeed, and this goes soem way to alleviate the problem, but still, if the fetish then doesn't get used for a year, this particular ancestor is out of circulation for that time. That would most likely piss off other descendants of the same ancestor. Then again, you can see this not as a problem but as a source of interesting role playing when people have to convince each other to release an ancestor both need.

Phil Hibbs:
>
> >Should there be another mechanic for ancestor worship?
> >Like go to the spirit plane, talk to the ancestors and
> >ask them to do delayed magic which the descendants then
> >can trigger.
>
> You are proposing changing the world to fit in with the desires of some of
> it's inhabitants.

No, I'm trying to find a way to make ancestor worship more workable from a sociological perspective. If you go back to an ancestor from mythical times, the number of descendants is likely to be pretty big.

James Holden:
>
> Maybe it would be helpful to think of fetishes in a slightly different way.
> Rather than seeing the ancestor trapped in the fetish, either temporarily or
> permanently, how about this:
>
> Fetishes used for contacting ancestors can be of (at least) two types. The
> first type of fetish includes items that were highly valued by the ancestor.
> For instance, the favored weapon of a renowned nomad warrior might qualify
> as a fetish; his water-skin wouldn't. The second type of fetish includes
> items made by a shaman or family member to celebrate the ancestor's
> accomplishments. In both cases, the fetishes should establish an emotional
> connection with the ancestor (i.e. buying my coffee table at a sidewalk sale
> is not enough to contact me after I'm dead).

That would work as well.



Nils Weinander
The world is a beautiful place and it's worth fighting for

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