RE: Animists and ancestors

From: Peter Metcalfe <metcalph_at_...>
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 20:49:34 GMT


James A. Holden:

>I gather you want Spirit Combat left just for actual battle-o'-wills
> >combat. That suits me fine.

>I understood differently for two reasons:

>(1) There is no Bargain with Spirits ability in any HW shaman's >keyword
>that we've seen so far.

Because none is needed. Simply use ordinary Bargain, Intimidate etc. There's no HW skill called Bargain with trolls but we don't go around assuming that the Fight Troll skill is used instead on the spurious grounds that it's badly named.

> > Let me back up. Spirit Combat is
> > perfectly okay to use on "friendly" spirits asuming the Tradition
> > Knowledge says it is. Can some spirits get annoyed by it? Probably, > >
>but if you beat them, they don't have much say in the matter :-).

>I read these messages as saying that Spirit Combat included begging,
>promising, grovelling, fighting, etc.

It doesn't. What Roderick did orginally say was that Spirit Combat shouldn't be used upon tradition spirits and later realized he was in error. After recanting, he then points out that spirit combat is perfectly okay on tradition spirits _provided_ the tradition says it is. If it is not okay, what does the shaman use instead? Bargain and other communication skills,
that's what.

>But, okay, I'm not attached to the name of the ability you use.

I prefer to use the most appropriate sounding ability for the job. Lumping everything under spirit combat makes a mockery of the HW rationale for skill names.

>Let's say that if you're an ancestor worshipper, you either can use your
>Tradition Knowledge or a special Ancestor Lore ability or >something else
>to forge those connections with your ancestors.

No, you use the same skills that you would use to your parents in the following circumstances "Pop, can I borrow the Car tonight?", "Can I have a party?"or even "I have just been busted for dope possession, could you bail me out?".

Tradition Knowledge only determines the most appropriate way to approach a spirit. It does not cover the actual approach itself.

>That said, what do you think of the idea of
>fetish-as-a-ticket-for-ancestral-favors vs. fetish-as-spirit-trap? (This is
>a possible way to sidestep the the "I have Grandpa Joe in this rattle. You
>can't summon him." problem.

A fetish is a spirit trap. If a spirit inhabits a fetish than it can't be used elsewhere. A scenario in Borderlands hinged on this fact (Duke Raus sent the PCs to get a sword containing an ancestor so that he could find out the names of even more ancestors).

--Peter Metcalfe



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