(Apologies in advance for the slightly Tongue In Cheek nature of this post - hope nobody takes it the wrong way! <grin>)
Just been away from my pc for a few days. Checking out the list, I discovered a debate on the Zorak Zoran cult which took me back to the Bad Old Days (IMHO, obviously <grin>) of GodLearnery on the Glorantha Digest in the days of Mr. Bell...
To whit :
> > When ZZ was born there were no uz.
and :
> Sorry, but that is not true. ZZ's is a relatively modern cult.
Many many moons ago I too was seduced by the dark side of the force
of GodLearnery. I think the first appearance of the old Elmal-
fun n games was one of the big triggers. However, the
ultimate result of GL analysis of cults n things appeared to be
either
i.) There weren't any gods at all, it was all just made up (probably
by this bloke in America...)
OR
ii.) Gloranthan Reality was not a constant, and could be changed by
the actions of Heroes and Major Heroquests, so even if we could pin
down what had happened, it might change the next minute when some
Well-Meaning But Cosmologically Clumsy Hero accidentally killed
Orlanth or something...
(I'm simplifying a bit... <grin>)
Perhaps the main conclusion I drew from the God Learner debate and the God Learner approach to history / culture / religion / etc, is that History is what the Gloranthans say it is. Ultimately, we have no "objective" take on the events and changes of Gloranthan post- history. Either Greg (or whoever) decides to tell us, which up to now he hasn't, or we're left with trying to know only what certain "present-day" Gloranthan societies / groups believe about their past, which includes the pasts of their cults also. The Swords of the shrine at Harnkorl's Stone in Sartar certainly don't think they're worshipping a Carmanian god...
As a referee I find myself certainly interested more in the societies and cults of my campaign as they are at the time of my campaign, and in the immediate past (which for my campaign means recent Third Age events / history). I don't personally find "objective" descriptions of an aetiology of a cult useful; if the trolls in my campaign view ZZ as a troll god who's been the way he is since before time began, that's more important to me than the ultimate and total relativism which analysis from a God Learner POV produces. To say that Tharkantus in some sense IS Yelmalio / Antirius / whoever is meaningless to the Balazarings in my Glorantha, although it certainly provides much hyperanalytical debate on mailing lists! <g>
It's clear that "history" on Glorantha differs considerably from "history" in other RPGs which can produce delicious timelines stretching back tens of thousands of years (Tekumel springs to mind). For one, the "ends of the Ages" (First Age, Second Age, etc), seem to be far more than just datelines - in a very real sense they seem to mark the end of major worldviews and social / religious outlooks, or in other words "realities". Consequently anyone wanting clear and definite statements about the past of Glorantha is going to have a hard time. And, as far as pre-Dawning Godtime events are concerned, all the more so; even as far back as CoP it was clear that causality and traditional approaches to chronology simply don't work with the Godtime. So, as far as I can see, it's actually not possible to say that ZZ was born "before" the Uz...
Pls don't get me wrong - I'm not having a go at anyone. GodLearnery debates can clearly be fun and intricate, I'm just not sure they offer anything to the Glorantha which Our Heroes inhabit. One of the nice things that HW has done in the non-specificity of many of its rules is to encourage us Refs to increasingly have Our Own Gloranthas rather than try fruitlessly to piece together some mythical One True Glorantha.
But, of course, Your Glorantha May Vary...
Big grins,
Regards,
Sarah (Ducking Rapidly Behind Her Fire Retardant Shield!)
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