Re: Illumination

From: David Cake <dave_at_...>
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 13:12:21 +0800


>At 23:45 16/11/00 +0800, you wrote:
>> I'd add to Peters insightful summary that Illumination can be
>>seen as an engagement by mysticism with theism,
>
>It isn't _just_ a mystical engagement of theism. It could also be
>used for sorcery and animist magics.

        True. A mystic engagement of non-mystic magic, I guess.

> > > What I think the situation
>> >is that illumination is a profound Cosmic Truth/Strike that has become
>> >divorced from any stabilizing Mystical Philosophy/Counter.
>
>> An illuminate can, IMO, be trained and develop a Mystic
>>Philosophy/ Counter, and gain abilities (and a chance at Nirvana)
>>from it.
>
>They could. But the counter was lost with Nysalor and other
>counters (Lunar mysteries, Order of Day) do not quite mesh IMO.

        I am sure that they are somewhat less effective than other mystics, and that real mystics scoff at their pathetic abilities, and so on. But its a real counter, that in theory leads to the same places.

> >Abilities like the classic illuminate ones are likely.
>
>IMO the classical illuminate abilities are obtainable from the
>illumination 'strike' rather than from any counter.

        I don't think so - I think most of them must be taught, or are acquired by particular methods of teaching. So someone who is illuminated after long discussions with a Lunar philosopher might know them - but someone who is illuminated after a couple of Nysalor riddles probably doesn't get much.

> I don't
>think it's a matter of simply joining a cult and unloading the
>freebie feats into your shopping cart without being unmasked
>by the temple authorities, but applying your illumination to
>the magical abilities at hand to see if it's true or something
>that you can merely do.

        Yes. By classic illuminate abilities, I mean things like being able to detect other illuminates, or hide from detect chaos, which I don't think every illuminate has, and I don't think can be learned other than by learning more about illumination.

>
>> >The thing about becoming dark masters/bad guys is something else
>> >AFAIK. This stems from the destruction of one's great self for
>> >worldly power and is something that an illuminate could stumble
>> >on into doing.
>
>>And something that should be left as a moral issue, not a
>>game mechanical one, IMO.
>
>I don't think so. We can treat vampirism as a game mechanical issue
>and becoming a dark master should be just as profound.

        YMMV. I think being a 'dark master' is both less of an all-or-nothing thing, and less irreversible. Also depends on how much you think Patanjali is one and only version of mysticism, too, I guess.

	Cheers
		David

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