Re: Questions from our first session

From: Andrew Dawson <asmpd_at_...>
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 00:48:54 -0500

I just thought that I would throw my two cents on the fire:

At 09:44 PM 01/06/2001 +0000, Wulf Corbett wrote:
>The rules state (p180), "Initiates gain access to the affinities, but
>not the feats, of their specific god." This is then immediately
>contradicted by the statement "Feats may be Improvised from the
>affinities." So, the rules state, you cannot get feats. But you can.
>Clear as mud.

I don't see any contradiction here. Initiates may not gain access to the feats of their god. However, initiates may improvise feats from their affinities. Initiates always _improvise_ feats; they may never gain them as abilities. (As you wrote later on in this message:)

>The specific answer to you question is, Initiates MUST IMPROVISE every
>use of magic from the TN of the Affinity that covers the effect they
>are attempting to create. Whether it is a listed Feat, or a brand new
>one.

Yes, and this doesn't contradict the fact that the initiate cannot have the feats as abilities.

>Ignore that comment, if, like Jeff, you don't like the idea I
>presented of Initiates just using Affinities, not feats at all. If you
>allow Initiates access to Feats, you can use the listed ones (at an
>Improvisation Penalty) or allow them to make up new ones, subject to a
>penalty decided by the Narrator.

Although I think someone else may have already said this, this is a house rule, not an official one.

My explanation is that the feats listed with each affinity are the standard feats that a devotee learns in the standard version of the god's cult. The same feats are guidelines that any worshipper can use to improvise magical effects from the worship of the god:

1. The devotee's player can look at the feats as magical effects that can be used and as examples of what can be improvised from the affinity.
2. The initiate's player can look at the feats to get an idea of what sort of magics can be improvised from the affinity (and a short list of "sure thing" effects that can be improvised).
3. The communal worshipper (using the Worship <Name> Pantheon ability) can use the feats and affinities of the gods in his pantheon to get an idea of what sort of effects can be asked for as divine aid.

At 10:53 PM 01/06/2001 +0000, JEFFREY KYER wrote:
>As far as my understanding goes, initiates can never cement a feat and
>can never learn a feat. They can increase their affinity. A kind
>narrator may give them a lower improv penalty if they've successfully
>used a 'new' feat several times in the past -- they are getting used
>to this slightly stranger magic. But that's house rules -- at least
>for me.

There is at least one exception to this rule. Initiates can learn feats from subcults. I know that this has been mentioned, but there is more to this: There is no reason to assume that there isn't a subcult for every feat listed and many that aren't. If the player wants his initiate to have a specific feat of any god and the narrator approves, then make up a subcult that teaches that feat.

>I'm finding the tendency of some narrators to forbid initiates to
>improvise anything new vaguely strange.

I completely agree. The listed feats are only examples.

At 12:09 PM 01/07/2001 +1300, Peter Metcalfe wrote:
>Wulf Corbett:
>>On Sat, 6 Jan 2001 13:30:52 -0800 (PST), bryan neff
>> >So,as an initiate I can NOT improvise a new feat of my
>> >own creation from an infinity? Say 'throw melee
>> >weapon' nder Humakt's Combat affinity?
>>Yes, you certainly can. Your narrator will decide if it's close enough
>>to the listed Feats to be a simple Improvisation, with the standard
>>penalty, or less fitting to the others listed, and thus deserving a
>>greater penalty.
>
>Whether or not there's a listed feat that corresponds to what the
>initiate attempts to improvise has nothing to do with the
>improvisation penalty. The penalty is -3 regardless of whether
>he is using the combat affinity to destroy a shield or to throw a
>melee weapon.

I would prefer to have said that the "standard improv penalty that the narrator has decided to use for improvising feats" is the same as long as the feat fits into the spirit of the affinity. I agree with the other posts on this subject that pointed out that improvising a Throw Ax feat from Humakt's Combat affinity would be harder (higher improv penalty) than improvising a Throw Sword feat.

The Improvisational Modifier section on HW:RiG p. 121 states that the narrator can set the improv penalty to anything from -1 to -20. The Initiation section on p. 180 states (third paragraph) that feats are improvised; there is no language about feats being improvised using the standard improvisational modifier.

[I also prefer the wording "standard improv penalty" to "-3". The standard improv penalty is currently errataed as -3, not -5, but anyone who just has the boxed set will have two numbers and some of us may still be hoping that this is reset to -5 instead of the hardly-a-penalty -3. I also think that mentioning that improv penalties can be set even higher is relevant to this discussion. There are repercussions to setting an improv penalty higher or lower. But this entire section is just an additional rant.]

Thanks,
Andy