> > > But the spirits that the Shaman integrates are losing _their_
> > > identity irreversibly. If they are well-loved spirits of the
> > > shamans own tradition (like Ancestors), then this is going to
> > > be seen as a Bad Thing.
>
> >I don't think that that is a universal truth,
>
> It is a universal truth for those cultures that practice
> integration as described in the Hero Wars rules.
Yes, but not what I meant, y'know ...
> In such a case, I prefer to see a statement of why the culture's
> magic differs.
Exactly.
> I doubt it is a case of "Our integration is the
> same as the HW-rules save that the individuality of the spirit
> is not extinguished".
Well no, that wouldn't make sense from a rules POV. Their Spirits would have to be a kind of Follower/Ally/Slave instead.
> I could accept something like "after death,
> our ancestors split off from our core self" but that to me would
> imply that all other integrated spirits also split off as it is
> extremely unlikely that a culture has two integration techniques.
I'm sorry, but I don't understand this.
> >Come to think of it, Ancestral shamanism is poorly represented by
> >the GL World-View. It should probably be a Borderline magic,
> >half-way between shamanism & theism ...
>
> Just because you worship something doesn't make it theistic.
Not what I'm saying. I'm saying that it's a *borderline* case, with *all* that this implies. It's more of a 'neither theism nor shamanism' thing than a 'theism and shamanism' one IMO, if that makes sense ...
... ie there are no Multi-Class Baboon Rune Lord/Shamans IMG ...
(although they sound like a lot of MGF ; perhaps there *should* be ...)
> >Thing is, despite the fact (I would say) that various methods of
> >Integration are possible, I think that a good rule of thumb for
> >HW is to remember that they all involve some form of difficulty
> >(and most likely psychic trauma) that can be well represented by
> >your 'hitting him over the head' suggestion.
>
> In other words, Spirits can be integrated only through the Spirit
> Combat option?
No. 'most likely'. ie I was attempting to agree with you.
> I thought I was the person trying to impose the
> One True Shamanism?
Whoops : sorry if you took my statement badly. No ad hominem offensiveness intended.
> I do accept a contest in trying to persuade
> the spirit but this could be something as unstressful as singing
> the right song.
I agree. But then, that also could be seen as a form of Spirit Combat from some POVs, no ?
Erm ... are we argueing past each other again, Peter ? I honestly *can't* detect any fundamental disagreement here ...
> Why don't they smoke dope instead?
They're too busy smoking opium ...
cheers,
Julian Lord
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