Re: Re: Integration

From: Peter Metcalfe <metcalph_at_...>
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 23:27:06 +1200


At 08:31 3/07/00 +0000, you wrote:

> > So all the interpretations about integrated spirits being in a
> > symbiotic relationship or that integration is merely the spirit
> > teaching you the integrated talent are not what is described by
> > the HW Integration mechanism.

>True, I knew that when I attempted to find a 'back door'...

Why do you want to find a back door to integrate ancestors? HW already gives rules for heroforming of ancestors.

> > but I do want to address the implications of the above
> > suggestion. If the spirits would voluntarily split off an
> > ability, then why does the only detailed animist culture not
> > permit the integration of ancestors?

>Well, firstly I wouldn't say the Grazers (who I assume are the ones
>you are talking about) are all that detailed, so there may be more to
>come.

It does imply fairly specifically that they do not integrate their ancestors. "Ancestors temporarily remain in a fetish, [...]. Other spirits can be placed in a fetish or integrated."

>Secondly, they do not rely on Ancestor Worship as much as many
>other cultures.

Considering that there's no subsumation of ancestors (or anything resembling integration as defined in the FAQ) in the writeup of Daka Fal as described in Cults of Prax and River of Cradles, I don't think that Ancestor worshippers in general will integrate their spirits for the same reason that Grazers don't.

>And thirdly, as I said, I know it doesn't fir the
>rules as written, I was simply trying to find a way to allow
>Integration of Ancestors, should it seem necessary to have such a
>mechanism.

But in doing so, you are making it acceptable for _every_ animist culture to integrate their ancestors. You were even suggesting it was important on the Prax list despite the complete absence of anything hitherto resembling integration (as defined by the HW rules) of ancestors in the Praxian material to date.

>So, what would YOU do if a Shaman achieved a Complete Victory when
>attempting to bind an Ancestral Spirit (by whatever means, Spirit
>Combat or otherwise)? Just ignore it and give him 3/day uses?
>Imprison the Ancestor in a fetish?

It depends on what my tradition is.

--Peter Metcalfe

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