Wes:
> >While I agree that Humakti priets would still be Hazars, I think that
> >there is more to the Vizier caste than sorcerors.
Peter:
> I agree and I was talking about the Vizier priesthoods when I
> wrote:
> :: There would be a few priesthoods, but I think they are magical
> :: societies sponsored by a House for power purposes (ie a Valind
> :: Priesthood to invoke Winter against one's enemies, an Atyari
> :: priesthood to steal secrets or a Ikadz priesthood to invoke
> :: torment) rather than being the average vizier deities to
> :: help with the knowledge.
> Martin seems to have interpreted that as a denial of any organized
> priesthoods among the Carmanians. I pointed out that _most_ of
> them would belong to other castes, as the viziers are "largely"
> sorcerers.
I didn't think you were denying the existence priesthoods, rather were emphasising the supremacy of sorcerers over theists in pure numbers terms. I think part of the problem for me is semantics. For me the Viziers have always been a priest caste, not a predominately sorcerous one. Any priest is a vizier and is therefore subordinate in religious matters to the Magi. That is how I've seen it.
This does lead to interesting situations if you have a priest of a Hazar cult. Or a Carmanoi cult.
Wes:
> >I think that a
> >better way to describe it would be "learned". The viziers are
> >the "scholars, loremasters, sorcerors, teachers, judges, astrologers
> >and scribes of Carmania."
Peter:
> Most of which are generally regarded as wizard's tasks in the West
> and are carried out by sorcerous Viziers in Carmania.
But not entirely. For example, the Irripi Ontor cult is strong in Carmania, and accepted as being of Idovanus yet this scholarly cult is theistic but still has to be in the Vizier caste.
>The similarity between Vizier and Wizard is not intended to be a coincidence.
I would agree that the majority of the Viziers are sorcerous types but think that some of them are theistic. How does a Humakti warrior-priest who is also a noble fit into this? I think they would be Carmanoi, as this is the senior caste. As for a warrior-priest, I think they would be Vizier but Vizier-militant. A part of the Vizier caste but a distinct part from the others. As distinct as a sorcerer who dabbles in alchemy would be from an astrologer who sits on a tower and draws the heavens. Or a judge who presides over many cases a day compared to a school teacher for young nobles who specialises in Sedenyic philosophy (and its acceptance by Idovanus)
Given the size and scope of the Vizier caste, which is far more variated that the Carmanoi caste in terms of professions, cults and outlooks, I think the caste has to be a broad church which is also fundamentally about recognising ones place in the world.
The Hazar caste also shows this division. It has fat merchants, obsequious bankers and violent killers within its bounds.
I think that there would be clearly defined sets of boundaries. Demarcation if you like, set by the Magi. They would be applied to define which caste any person was in at any one time, based on profession.
Martin Laurie
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