Andrew :
> >>> Elmal's Fire powers are very inferior to Yelm's, of course, but
> >>> *quite* superior to Yelamalio's.
> >>
> >> If you can name one cult with Fire powers *inferior* to those of
> >> Yelmalio, I will grant you that the sentence above is particularly
> >> meaningful.
> >
> > I'm glad you answered so : it means, of course, that they _exist_.
>
> Not sure that you can read Nick's comment that way.
No, but you can *respond* to it that way ... ;-)
> It seems to me (Nick, am I mistaken?) that Nick putting cults in
> three ranks:
>
> 1. Those with mythic fire-powers (e.g. Yelm, Zorak Zoran, Mahome);
>
> 2. Those with no particular mythic connection vis-a-vis fire, whether
> pro or con (e.g. Orlanth, Humakt, Thed);
>
> 3. Those with a mythic reason why they *lack* fire (e.g. Yelmalio)
>
> ...and Nick puts Elmal in category 2.
It seems to me that I made a very similar distinction (Yelm : owns Fire Rune ; Elmal : doesn't ; Yelmalio : had Fire taken away from him)
However, I think that this category 2 is so broad as to be meaningless ; or if it weren't, you'd have to put Elmal very high up in the second division Fire League ; but, say Humakt or Uleria, very low.
I just think that looking at Elmal himself, not to GL-wise consider any Yelmic cults or Fire Runes at the same time, there seems to be no proper mythic reason (apart from possible GL contamination from the Dara Happan cults) why Elmal should lack fire, whereas there are several mythic reasons why he should have such powers (his Torch, his blazing spear, his fiery chariot, etc ... )
> Just off the top of my head, subject to correction: I expect if a
> Humakti found a magic flaming sword, he could use it with no
> difficulty. A Yelmalian, on the other hand, might be mythically unable
> to use a flaming sword, and if he could use it, he'd probably have a
> handicap. (A Yelmist would probably get some kind of bonus, e.g. being
> able to augment his sword skill with his fire affinity.) And Nick
> would put an Elmali in the same category as a Humakti--no bonus or
> penalty.
YGMV, but I'd personally put a Yelm the Youth devotee in exactly the same category as regards using that sword, roolz-wise, although I grant that a Yelmic combination of several kinds of Fire magic plus the sword would be more "fiery" than any similar Elmali combinations, but then again a Humakti might be able to improvise some sort of Deathfire etc : a Yelmalion could potentially wager the sword, in a HeroQuest challenge, against the power to use it.
> Or, you might find a Humakti hero-cult with some fire powers, and
> (Nick would say) you might find an Elmali hero-cult with some
> fire-powers--just as you might find a particular hero-cult with
> writing powers, or swimming, or anything else. You *wouldn't* ever
> find a Yelmalian subcult with fire powers.
>
> ...am I on the right track here?
IMO an Elmali with Fire powers would be more thematically appropriate than a Humakti Fire Warrior, but yes of course, both are normally possible, as opposed to a fire-wielding Yelmalion subcult.
Julian Lord
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