How likely is it to have a punch-up on a sunday in the real world, among supposedly "Christian" peoples? Since it's Vinga's day, the raiders probably won't have any red-haired women with them, but for the rest, heck why not?
> > Would the family hiring a band of Gagarthi be a more plausible work-
> around?
>
> Extreme, I'd say. But still possible.
But not a personal as doing it in person :-). Of course, having hired Gagarthi once, they've proved (to the Gagarthi) that they are "willing" to work with the outlaws, which could be an interesting turn of events for the family! They might find themelves "in debt" to the outlaws, having to hide renegades, give them tribute, etc. Imagine having the local bike gang decide that they can count on you when they're in trouble?
> > Is it plausible that a disrupted initiation could result in a girl
> being
> > stranded in the Otherworld?
>
> It'd involve some Narrator fudging, I'd think. Normally, I'd say the
> initiate wouldn't be in the Otherworld on her own (others would be
> playing the other parts in the ritual), but it's Narrator's call.
Not at all. *All* initiations have parts which take place on the Other Side. That's where the Orlanthi kids were ambushed by Lokmayadan.
> > If so, what kind of disruption would be needed? Physical scattering
> of the
> > congregation, regalia and so on, what else ... ?
>
> Something substantial enough to break down the connection to the
> Otherworld. For a Shamanic Circle, all you have to do is break the
> circle (I know... I'm still on the Otherside...), but for theists the
> connection is a bit more resilient. However, a well-aimed brick to
> the Vingan Ritual leader's head should do...
Check NB 21 for the physical effects of destroying a temple whole people are on the other side - they are unharmed at least until they come back. So the raiders will catch the initiation ceremony between the God-talker leaving the girl on the Other Side, and the girl coming back a full-fledged Vingan (or, alternately, the God-talker is trapped on the Otther Side as well).
Coming back from the Theistic otherside usually involves walking through a door back to "the present", which deposits you back where you started the ritual. There is usually no way to "come back" to a different spot (there are some really hard ways to do it, but not suitable for a just-minted initiate!
> > What punishments would a tribe inflict on a clan that took part in
> such an
> > impious act? How might the impious family be punished? (Outlawry
> seems the
> > obvious one for individuals and bloodlines).
>
> Outlawry would be possible, but extreme. A damn good kicking (the
> Vingans may well volunteer for this) and a hefty fine (plus
> substantial loss of various abilities, like relations to clan, to
> Orlanth, etc) would be more in keeping. Of course, if the girl dies,
> it may well be considered murder. The clan the attackers came from
> might well outlaw them just to save face, too.
It's not *really* impious, I can see certain sorts of people saying "well heck, that was the best time to do it". The Raiding Clan will certainly be in Vinga's bad books, but most people will expect the raided clan/the vingans to take care of the problem in their own way - as wulf says, a damn good kicking.
Who does the clan belong to? To the tribe of the raidees, or another? If the same tribe, then they'll need to take it up in court, with both sides calling characetr witnesses, etc. If another tribe, then they'll have to get the tribal kings involved if they want a court case.
Simple impiety isn't a crime (impiety is up to the gods to punish - Agents of Reprisal exist for that very reason, and subtle calls on the goddess's earthly followers to avenge their sister...), instead the raided clan will have to sue for real damages - injured or killed people, destroyed buildings, etc. The raiding clan may chose to outlaw the raiders to prevent a major court case (in effect saying "here, we wash our hands of 'em"), or (if this is all the same tribe) the tribe may call for outlawry or banishment, but it is only for the damage done, not for attacking on a God's day.
Roderick
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