Apple Pie and Characteristic Mythology? (And Heortling Collectives for Common Magic)

From: Jonathan Quaife <jonathan.quaife_at_...>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 16:38:17 -0000


Hello Gang.

Just a quick comment prompted by the following point from Peter:

"Regular men (or male gods) ought to be married. So, it's an Orlanthi 'all,'
with the bulk of the deviants being Death cultists (in my opinion) with the odd 'unmarriageable' type (Eurmali come to mind). ... I can imagine there are times when a short marriage occurs primarily to give the woman a child. Maybe one of the Thunder Brothers is the mythical origin of that practice."

If participation in and manifestation of real-world mythology is in any way a template from which Gloranthan equivalents stem (and I think that, judging by the general approach adopted by Greg to Glorantha, this is so), then I feel certain that it is a mistake to imagine that mythology simply reflects the familiar social environment of the storyteller.

The secret of mythology is surely that myth alludes to occult and mystery. In this way it conveys something of the numinous. Of late Gloranthan mythology contributed seems to me to place too much emphasis on current institutions or conditions, or on the origins of those things. This sort of story has a tone of something that is all very comfortable and apple-pie. But I personally don't think myth is really like that. Often it is challenging, frightening, or even (and perhaps especially) subversive. Also, framing mythology in this style is much more interesting from a gaming and story-arc point of view.

As an example I have abridged a Greek myth from http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0022;query=section%3D%2342;layout=;loc=1.8.2, as follows. (Apologies, it's a bit long:)

"Reigning over Calydon, Oeneus was the first who received a vine-plant from
Dionysus. He married Althaea, daughter of Thestius, and begat Toxeus, whom he slew with his own hand because he leaped over the ditch.

"Althaea had also a son Meleager, by Oeneus, though they say that he was
begotten by Ares. It is said that, when he was seven days old, the Fates came and declared that Meleager should die when the brand burning on the hearth was burnt out. On hearing that, Althaea snatched up the brand and deposited it in a chest. Meleager grew up to be an invulnerable and gallant man, but came by his end in the following way.

"In sacrificing the first fruits of the annual crops of the country to all
the gods Oeneus forgot [to sacrifice to] Artemis alone. But she in her wrath sent a boar of extraordinary size and strength, which prevented the land from being sown and destroyed the cattle and the people that fell in with it. To attack this boar Oeneus called together all the noblest men of Greece, and promised that to him who should kill the beast he would give the skin as a prize. Now the men who assembled to hunt the boar were these:

... Meleager, son of Oeneus;
... Amphiaraus, son of Oicles, from Argos;
... Ancaeus and Cepheus, sons of Lycurgus, from Arcadia;
... Atalanta, daughter of Schoeneus, from Arcadia;
... With them came also the sons of Thestius.

"And when they were assembled, Oeneus entertained them for nine days; but on
the tenth, when Cepheus and Ancaeus and some others disdained to go hunting with a woman [Atalanta], Meleager compelled them to follow the chase with her, for he desired to have a child also by Atalanta, though he had to wife Cleopatra, daughter of Idas and Marpessa. When they surrounded the boar ... Atalanta was the first to shoot the boar in the back with an arrow, and Amphiaraus was the next to shoot it in the eye; but Meleager killed it by a stab in the flank, and on receiving the skin gave it to Atalanta.

"Nevertheless the sons of Thestius, thinking scorn that a woman should get
the prize in the face of men, took the skin from her, alleging that it belonged to them by right of birth if Meleager did not choose to take it.

"But Meleager in a rage slew the sons of Thestius and gave the skin to
Atalanta. However, from grief at the slaughter of her brothers Althaea kindled the brand, and Meleager immediately expired."

Some of the themes here, very much characteristic of Greek mythology, are (1) Oenus kills his own son, Toxeus; (2) Trouble is caused by a capricious and powerful character (in this case Artemis); (3) Meleager was *probably* Oenus' son, although father *might* have been Ares; (4) Meleager is married but anyway pursues Atalanta; (5) Meleager murders his own uncles, the sons of Thestius; (6) Meleager is murdered by his own mother.

Is there occult and mystery in this story? Certainly. The story seems characterised by a feeling of separation between gods and men contrasted very much against a sense of consequence of divine action and perhaps of divine indifference. This is a backdrop to a more vivid theme: humanity testing or violating boundaries of the established social order (family, gender). For me the story is less about message and more about feeling, evoking a sense of the reality and danger of life---in this case reminding us of our feelings of aspiration and tragedy, stirred up in some indirect way by the hand of God which even so remains beyond account.

Does the story reflect the familiar social environment of the storyteller? I would hope not! (or perhaps only in the sense of what would be deemed contrary to it.) Not much here that is representative of normal or acceptable behaviour in Hellenic society, I would have said.

So, anybody fancy participating in the heroquest to acquire the hide of the Calydonian boar?! They tell me that the hide is really a great acquisition, only you may finish up being killed by your nephew... or mother...

Cheers,

Jon.

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