Re: Re: re:Alakorings and Heortlings

From: KYER, JEFFREY <jeff.kyer_at_...>
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 12:46:43 -0500

Ian Cooper wrote:
> > I assume Greg has some substantial thoughts on what the Esrolians
> are
> > really like, and will share them in due course.
> Though events in Esrolia occur in the early part of the Hero Wars
> so...

Yes, though there's more. I'm thinking we'll hear more of Belintar... someday. He's just too interesting to leave an enigma.  

> > but they were land-locked (although made good use of streams,
> rivers,and lakes with their
> > canoes),
> There were a couple of very big lakes... Also to what extent are
> Esrolians influenced by water. The Holy Country navy seems to have
> its origin in the East Isles, the coastal cities seem to have a
> Malkioni origin...

(Looks out window at Lake Ontario)

The problem with this is that the rivers and lakes of the Iroquois's area are not navigable by anytyhing but a canoe -- and often you have to portage. Bryan's familiar with portaging. Its not fun... and it really cuts down on your cargoes. Only high-value cargoes like furs are really worth transporting in this manner -- the old North West Fur Trading company did this -- trading furs from the west, across the Great Lakes to Montreal where they were then shipped to Europe. A long, grueling journey for the Voyageurs.

But while the Esrolian's seem to trade, they seem more middle men than otherwise. I suspect the Minoan analog might work better. Or soething that takes of both -- or, horrors, writting something up that's new. =)  

> > didn't have any form of herd animal, practiced slash and burn
> horticulture
> Had women in charge of the sacred duties of farming, myths abouts the
> three grain goddeses. Agricultaraly there are good and bad points.

Had women in charge of SOME sacred duties but did practice...

Good God... the Iroquois are TROLLS!!! (only half kidding)  

> > backed by large amounts of hunting, lived in long-houses, and
> didn't have cities.
> Well the cities are Malkioni, and longhouses do fit with Vingkotlking
> origins. Agreed the hunting is probably out.

Actually, I think the cities are older than that though -- certainly some of the ruins on the map are. With the 'stablity' of the Grandmother's taking over, its quite possible that the cities got quite large.  

> But consider if we view the Iroquois as a model for early esrolian
> culture, and then add metalworking, permanent instead of semi-
> permanent settlements etc. we could move towards Esrolian culture.

When you put it that way, it seems plausable -- and probably as good an evolution as any for a culture. Probably a bit of both Minoan and Iroquois... At least we get a wealth of documented material to beat into shape, should one wish to pursue that approach. The Jesuits of St. Marie among the Hurons did quite a lot of documentation on the Huronian cultures and society before they were exterminated by the Iroquois -- something about not wanting to give them their furs.  

> Importantly they had matriachal clans that formed federations which
> bears a resemblance to the Esrolian model.

Its about the only case we have out here in the Real World (tm) =)  

> I'm trying to suggest there is much to draw on, not that the two are
> the same.

> I don't know enough about Evans Minoan culture to comment on what
> could be taken from it. My only worry is that most of the other
> Mediteranean civilisations seem to be Pelorian analogues. I could not
> find any books by Evans on a quick search of Amazon, only critiques
> of his position.
> Ian

I'd be interested in hearing more of this as well. Bryan? Peter?


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