Re: Marriage: Helering mythic marriage

From: donald_at_...
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:02:09 GMT


In message <200502232220.00915.geard_at_...> Jennifer Geard writes:
>
>Hi All,
>
>The Glorantha list ate this, so I'm trying again here.

The discussion could get very esoteric but I'll stick to the general stuff.

>"Uroth the Blue Ram is the primary form taken by Heler. He has shaggy
>blue wool, brass thunder hooves, and powerful horns. In this form, he
>leapt from mountaintop to mountaintop across all of Genertela. After
>each leap, he married a goddess and fathered sheep, clouds, or other
>creatures." (ST, p.85)
>
>Specific question: what might "marriage" have meant in this myth, and
>how might it have been contracted? This is before Heort, before the
>stranger's wedding, and possibly even before Ernalda and Orlanth were
>wed. It obviously wasn't a lifelong monogamous bond, but "marriage"
>makes it sound like it was more than a casual fling. Maybe Uroth is
>polygamous. Maybe these are term marriages. Maybe the marriage gives
>Uroth a claim on the children that he wouldn't have if there were no
>marriage. The key question is "If you were sucked into this quest in
>the role of one of the goddesses, what might it be like?"

Bear in mind that Storm Tribe is a Heortling/Orlanthi view of things. So it probably means a term marriage because that's how the Orlanthi see such relationships. Another culture will describe it differently and understand it differently.

Because this happened before time, he may well have seen his children grow up before making his next leap.

So how does a woman sucked into such a HQ see the result? - that'll depend on the goddess involved. Ernalda, for example, will take him as one of her husband-protectors.

>Related general question: is there a form of words which is
>required/expected in Heortling marriage? Something as simple as
>"Where you are master, there I will be mistress" would do just
>fine, thinking of Roman models. Or is it just about having a feast
>and reciting the marriage contract in public? Or primarily about a
>marriage quest? I might have asked this before, but if you wanted
>to get married in a hurry -- one partner was going off to a battle
>or duel that might prove fatal -- what's the minimum
>ceremony/declaration/action that would form a valid marriage?
>
>(I'm aware of http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/1481/marriage.html,
>and I'm particularly interested in what you do when (a) you don't have
>time for a heroquest ritual marriage, and/or (b) the partners are some
>combination other than Orlanthi and Ernaldan: perhaps Helering, Humakti,
>Vingan or Elmali.)

The first thing you need is for the clans involved to agree a contract - what's the dowry? the brideprice? where are the couple going live? which clan do the children belong to?

If it's a couple of stickpickers it'll take a few minutes to say, followed by "I agree" in some form. If a couple of thanes a lawspeaker will spend ages reciting the agreement before the parties get the chance to say "I agree" and get on with the party. Imagine a modern society wedding with all the guests and their gifts named.

If there isn't time for all this then one of the less formal marriages (Bed-wife/husband, Love-wife/husband) will be performed with the intention of making a more formal arrangement later. Since no property is involved the lengthy negotiations can be avoided and it becomes a declaration before witnesses.

I'd say that it's only the formal marriages which involve a HQ and the precise nature of the HQ varies a lot depending on the clans and status of the people involved. As far as followers of other gods go, it'll affect the HQ but not the contractual elements of the marriage. Humatki, of course, can't get married - as far as the clans are concerned they're dead.

-- 
Donald Oddy
http://www.grove.demon.co.uk/

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