Re: Re:Other Chieftain Gods

From: donald_at_...
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 12:38:25 GMT


In message <20050314102341.46922.qmail_at_...> Ian Cooper writes:
>
>Despite the mod's warning this has recently come up in
>our game, as there is an emerging contest for
>leadership of the clan, so I hope it is ok to discuss
>it.
>
>There are some requirements to stand for the office of
>chief stated in king of Sartar. Because not everyone
>has this let's quote some useful bits for this
>discussion

First off, King of Sartar is not always accurate. The debates about which bits are incomplete, inaccurate or biased is definitely off topic. From a game point of view you can argue that in the clan you are dealing with the requirements (a) are strictly obeyed, (b) modified by X and Y, (c) have never been heard of.

>>He must be initiated into the clan secrets of
>>Orlanth, and have participated in the Four Yearly
>>Rites and the Lightbringer Quest in Sacred Time.
>
>There is an implication here that you need to lead an
>Orlanthi clan you need to be an Orlanthi initiate. I'd
>also allow Vinga (because it is how women worship
>Orlanth). Elmali clans are not Orlanthi clans, so have
>different rites, but I suspect that an Elmali in an
>Orlanthi clan would still need to be an Orlanthi
>initiate, he could only be just Elmali in an Elmali
>clan.

This bit is also quoted in Thunder Rebels pg. 175, however it is contradicted by the description of Orendana the Queen on pg. 200. I've also seen mention that about half of clans are usually headed by an Orlanthi, a third by an Ernaldan and the rest have other rules but I can't find the reference at the moment.

To briefly reconcile all the bits in TR, I'd say that it is a traditional practice to initate all chiefs into the Orlanth subcult of Dar irrespective of their other cult affiliations. However your clan WILL vary.

>This is not that strange. 'All' Orlanthi worship
>Orlanth and Ernalda. To not, probably excludes you
>from leadership. You are too different from most folks
>lives. Player heroes find this strange because they
>often focus on 'strange' gods, but no one should be
>suprised if these kind of communities deny them
>opportunities because they are different. Heortlings
>are conservative.
>
>Note the ritual requirements. These require you to
>have had enough importance to have been selected to
>participate in these rites. This tends to mean that
>candidates are already leaders: thanes or priests.

You are interpreting participation narrowly, pretty much all adult Heortlings participate in these rituals. Not doing so is a deliberate act of excluding yourself from the community which I agree is a disqualification.

>"know men�s magic and have a magical item of his
>own...two good horses, a metal helmet and byrnie, two
>good swords, and six spears".
>
>Note the warrior paraphenalia here. The chief is
>expected to be a war leader - it is one of his duties.
>The note about men's magic and possession of a magic
>item implies his position as leader of the clan's
>rituals. That seems to exclude non-Vingan women
>leaders unless the clan has Esrolian style of
>leadership (in which case the requirements will differ
>and not allow male candidates).

There is nothing which prevents worshippers of Ernalda participating in the Fyrd, they are not required to but I think women who aspire to lead the clan will. The clan may prefer someone who leads the fyrd rather than charging off to gain glory in the warriors battle. The men's magic requirement is handled by initiating into Orlanth Dar and the rest are more a wealth and status qualification than anything else.

>And:
>
>>>Finally, he must prove his skills against all other
>>>candidates for the office in the Chief Tests
>
>So there are contests involved. I have not identified
>what they are yet, but I am sure that the candidates
>need and expect help to complete them - thus providing
>a great hook for involving the heroes. Though I have
>fixed on what they are yet, I have mentioned that
>there are 10, and that many are practice heroquests. I
>am sure most come from the myths of how Dar became the
>first chief. Anyone care to kibbutz on them?

I'd look through the mythology of Orlanth for stories that would do. Especially those which require a variety of skills which you think a leader needs. Remember the chief doesn't have to succeed in all of them - merely perform better overall than his rivals in the opinion of the clan.

-- 
Donald Oddy
http://www.grove.demon.co.uk/

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