Re: Common religions and concentrating magic

From: L.Castellucci <lightcastle_at_...>
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 15:04:09 -0400


Yay! It's a can of worms!

On September 6, 2007 12:27 pm, descarga68 wrote:
> I know I'm not the only person who has found the rules dealing with
> concentrating magic, the various separate otherworlds, common magic,
> etc, confusing.

Nope. You're not alone. :)

> Here are some questions that have been puzzling me:
>
> 1) Men of the Sea, p 25, describes the Mirrorsea "pantheon" as a
> common religion with gods and majestic spirits but no tradition
> spirits or divine aid. Instead it provides common magic charms and
> feats, both of which worshippers can keep even if they concentrate
> their magic on the spirit world or the gods world. Is this the case
> with other pantheons whose magic is normally mixed? For instance, is
> this true of the East Isles, Kralori, and Teshnan pantheons?

Who knows? I don't kow what they mean by "Common Religion". It seems to be used in the books as "any religion that doesn't specialize in one otherworld". Except, of course, that it seems to be the case that ALL religions are mostly mixed at the common level, it is just the specialized Pantheon that is usually dominated by one form. Certainly the book gives that idea by pointing out Teshnos as an exception. Common Magic also sometimes gets defined as "magic from creatures in the mundane world" or some such. They may have otherworld connections, and so the magic can be kept when concentrated, however they aren't in the otherworld. Or maybe it is supposed to mean "magic you don't have to go to the otherworld to get to". (That's the version that has appealed to me more and more of late.)

Regardless, if the pantheon has Gods and Majestic Spirits, it presumably has otherworld entities giving you your magic. Why this is "Common Religion" escapes me.

When I saw this, I thought "oh, they are changing concentration to work on a Pantheon" - only that doesn't seem to be the case. Add in that if you do make concentrating on a pantheon let you use all magics in it, then why are Lunars weird with their apparantly mixed magic?

Personally, I am leaning to magic where people mostly use things mixed, and it is only at the dedicated magician level (Initiate, Adept, Practitioner) etc, where the "people only use one type of magic" tends to come in. I would then throw the Mirrorsea pantheon exception out the window. Like everyone else, they use lots of mixed magic unless they feel like concentrating.

> 2) If a Rightarm islander is an initiate of Pelaskos and concentrates
> his magic, retaining his Songs of Marsh and Placid Waters feats and
> charms, he should be able to use the feats as active abilities,
> correct? What about the charms?

In my world, he would lose the charms. If you are playing the exception, it is your choice. I'd probably guess the intention was that he just doesn't lose them, not that he gets the benefit of concentration for them as well.

> 3) HQ, p 57, lists a number of Teshnan cults which provide both
> affinities (suggesting an other side in the gods world) AND talents
> (which are supposed to originate in the inner world). Can worshippers
> of these cults concentrate at all? Can they keep both affinities and
> talents if they do?

By the rules one would say no. It does specify they are "actually common religions (using mixed magic) rather than pure Theist cults." However, using the Mirrorsea precedent, you would assume yes.

> 4) People who concentrate their common magic, either by concentrating
> their talents or by the Selfrock teaching, cut themselves off from the
> otherworlds, correct? Does this mean that they cut themselves off
> from worship of otherworld entities? For instance, would this
> concentration prevent them from functioning as a lay member of a
> church or a communal worshipper of a pantheon or from benefiting from
> its blessings, from divine aid, etc? By the same token, can an
> Issaries devotee (concentrated by definition on the gods world)
> participate in rites honoring Flesh Man, who provides talents to the
> Heortlings, but who is, after all, another one of the Lightbringers?

I think that a strict reading of the rules implies yes, at least for if you concentrate on Talents (instead of Self-rock, which immediately breaks the rules set up for concentration by letting you do all common magic instead of just talents). So maybe you can argue that self-rock people can still be lay members, but not normal talent concentration. Of course, it has come out in discussions here that most people are Lay-member level of more than one type of religion, since the pantheons are mixed. (i.e. Heortlings are effectively lay member Theists AND spiritists of the Heortling traditions)

> 5) The entity worshipped in a common religion resides by definition in
> the inner world, correct?

One would think so.

> If so, how do people heroquest into the
> myths of such an entity (eg, "Berentos has quested into the myths of
> the Seabird Army several times, clashing with both Orlanthi and Sofali
> turtle folk," Men of the Sea, p 72)? My understanding was that in
> order to do a heroquest, one had to cross over to the other side ---
> gods world, spirit world, or saint plane, depending on which other
> side one's religion gave one access to --- and from there travel to
> the hero plane (or gods' war, which I think is an interchangeable
> term, yes?). If this is the case, I am puzzled as to how Avelania ---
> who, since she provides only common magic, would seem to reside in the
> inner world --- grants her worshippers access to her actions during
> the Great Darkness. Did Berentos have to get a Sofali shaman or an
> Orlanthi priest (ie, his ritual enemies) to help him cross over to the
> other side? Alternatively, if the Avelania cult does know how to
> cross over to the other side, which otherworld does it get you to?

It could be that you don't go into your otherworld first, and all "over to the other side" stuff goes directly to the HeroPlane first. That might solve this. Otherwise, yes, it seems to make no sense.

> 6) Do other common religions involve heroquesting? Some of them, like
> Imarja in Esrolia or the Parondpara of the East Isles, are absolutely
> central to the identities of the people that follow them. It seems as
> though they must have great volumes of stories about them that people
> should be using for heroquests.

I would think so. I first thought Imarja was sort of like the Kero Fin of Esrolia - a giant and important landscape entity that straddled the line to actual goddess. I am given to understand I am wrong. But absolutely you would think people could heroquest some of these stories.

> 7) Do you have to concentrate your magic to learn symbolic
> sight/spirit face/soul vision/moon eye?

No. (I should probably check Moon Eye, but since the other three don't require concentration, I don't see why moon eye would.)

> If a hero belongs to the
> relevant cults (eg, he is both an initiate of Gerendetho and a
> novitiate of a Lunar regimental immortal), can he or she learn more
> than one of these four otherworldly perception abilities?

I don't see why not.

> PS I hope this is the right list for these questions. If not, please
> advise.

It is sort of straddling the line between rules and RPG, since it really falls at the intersection of both.

LC

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