Re: Venerate (saint)

From: Roderick and Ellen Robertson <rjremr_at_...>
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 21:37:39 -0800


> >Curses are different from Blessings - they are meant to be cast on an
enemy.
> >They are a projection of "bad" magic at a certain target. Yes, the
> >congregation is adding it's will to the Liturgists (giving him
Extraordinary
> >support, in other words, which, as you note, help him overcome
range/target
> >penalties). The game mechanics of blesses and curses are pretty much the
> >same, but there are differences, such as Blessings not having Number of
> >Target mods (Curses do).
>
> I don't know if I like this distinction. A blessing/curse (or
> positive/negative, if you prefer, or even defensive/offensive) shouldn't
be
> handled two different ways. Feats, for example, seem to work exactly the
> same wheather they are "Swordhelp" or "Scare the bejeezes out of the
> neighbors." Similarly, spirits have more or less the same rules used to
> help the shaman or hurt her foes. Why should liturgy be any different?

It's not (at least to my way of thinking). The target of the magic is different, and the modifiers are different, but otherwise it acts pretty much the same way. We all get together and pray, and our liturgist directs that magical energy in the appropriate manner.

> >"...minuses on Grimoire skills" is non-game-mechanical? huh?
>
> Um, this is a game, game mechanics have to come into it somewhere.

Oh I know, I was pulling your leg (forgot to add the smiley). :-)

> If we agree that using liturgical magic in a friendly manner
(non-resisted,
> I suppose, for a game definition) on a theist is polluting both for the
> theist and the liturgist this has to be depicted somehow. Saying that
> liturgical magic works one way for blessings and another for curses seems
> (to me) to be a much more clumsy game construct.

I don't see how they are different, but I'm perhaps too close to the rules.

> >Liturgical magic (which is what we've been discussing, Wizardly magic is
> >outside this discussion) is meant to be community/congregation based.
Good
> >stuff happens to the congregation, bad stuff happens to their foes. There
> >are some prayers for blessings for people not immediately in the
> >congregation during the service ("And now a prayer for our boys at the
> >front", "A special prayer for the King"), but for the most part if you
want
> >the blessing, you have to join the worship service.
>
> Yes, maybe that is the problem; I've been thinking of Liturgists as
> sort of "junior Wizards," but they seem to be a different species of fish.

Very much so. Liturgists are pretty much like medieval priests (my main model). They do things with the congregation (they probably also have counseling sessions, lead the children of the village onto the path of righteousness, etc.), not go off haring into the wild blue yonder (liturgists for fighting orders go haring off with them, of course). Ideally they don't do any magic "for themselves" but only for the good of the congregation (whether that means blessing the croips or cursing enemies).

> So I'm assuming that the liturgist can only cast curses against
> enemies of the congregation, not just targets for the liturgist's personal
> spite (or justified alarm, for that matter). So a liturgist could cast a
> curse against "that rotten village next door" or "the Kingdom of War"
(good
> luck), but not against "the Sinister Blue Army Agent" because the
> congregation doesn't even know the agent exists (much less the Blue Army).

Absolutely. Their grimoires may have all sorts of curses for people that don't exist any more ("Those filthy Barangi people mentioned in our Holy Book - who are they?" "Oh, they were wiped out during the first War against the Fremlongi, soon after the Thaw" "Then why do we still curse their name?" "Because it's in the Book you silly boy. For your impertinance you will wash the church windows before Service for a month" ). If a new enemy pops up, it will take a lot of work to get a curse specifically for them. There are probably some curses vague enough (and much less powerful) to use against "a <type of> foe", but the real kick-ass curses need to be as specific as possible. And, of course, you can't improvise curses, since this is sorcery. The best you can do is use the vague curses.

> I suppose liturgists develop a "Direct the ire of the congregation" skill
> quickly, if they have to worry about such things. It also adds a bit to
> Malkioni civil war -- it's hard to direct liturgical effects against
people
> who are potentially part of your congregation; the "will of the people" is
> divided.

Sure does :-)

RR

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