RE: Digest Number 375

From: Loren Miller <loren_at_...>
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 20:01:06 -0600

> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 3:02 PM
> To: HeroWars_at_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Digest Number 375
>
>
>
> There are 25 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Re: Berserk Kinslaying
> From: "Jeff" <jeff.kyer_at_...>
> 2. Re: Just a thought
> From: "Jeff" <jeff.kyer_at_...>
> 3. Re: Just a thought
> From: wulfc_at_...
> 4. Re: Just a thought
> From: "Jeff" <jeff.kyer_at_...>
> 5. RE: Re: Just a thought
> From: "Gareth Martin" <gamartin_at_...>
> 6. RE: Re: Just a thought
> From: "Gareth Martin" <gamartin_at_...>
> 7. Gift Carriers and Historical Fun
> From: rmv1_at_...
> 8. Re: Re: Berserk Kinslaying
> From: Osentalka_at_...
> 9. Re: Just a thought
> From: bethexton_at_...
> 10. Re: Re: Berserk Kinslaying
> From: Benedict Adamson <badamson_at_...>
> 11. Re: PCs and subcults
> From: Thom Baguley <t.s.baguley_at_...>
> 12. Fitting In As Adventurers
> From: Greg Stafford <Greg_at_...>
> 13. Re: Rare cults
> From: Greg Stafford <Greg_at_...>
> 14. Re: Rare cults
> From: rmv1_at_...
> 15. Re: Just a thought
> From: markmohrfield_at_...
> 16. Re: Re: Rare cults
> From: Greg Stafford <Greg_at_...>
> 17. Re: Rare cults
> From: Wulf Corbett <wulfc_at_...>
> 18. Re: Rare cults
> From: Wulf Corbett <wulfc_at_...>
> 19. Re: Re: Berserk Kinslaying
> From: Nick Eden <nick_at_...>
> 20. New file uploaded to HeroWars
> From: <HeroWars_at_yahoogroups.com>
> 21. New file uploaded to HeroWars
> From: <HeroWars_at_yahoogroups.com>
> 22. Re: Heroes
> From: kmnellist_at_...
> 23. Re: Heroes
> From: melstra_at_...
> 24. Re: Rare cults
> From: Paul Andrew King <paul_at_...>
> 25. Masai repond to Foot and Mouth Disease
> From: "Roderick and Ellen Robertson" <rjremr_at_...>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 12:31:48 -0000
> From: "Jeff" <jeff.kyer_at_...>
> Subject: Re: Berserk Kinslaying
>
> > John Hughes wrote:
> > ...
> > > You are however correct in that any murder within a clan is
> kinstrife
> > > (within a *CLAN*, not just within a bloodline) and not subject to
> weregild
> > > payments. TR 43 spells it out.
> > ...
> >
> > You seem to be saying that the legal unit is the clan, rather than
> > the bloodline. If that is so, how can there be any legal disputes
> > WITHIN a clan?
> >
> > Surely, by definition, kin=members of bloodline?
>
> Not according to the legal definitions in Thunder Rebels. Close kin
> is your bloodline, they are responsible for fines, work,
> bringing-you-up-right and so on. But, legally, the entire clan IS
> considered your kin, certainly for the purposes of kinstrife though I
> think that this definition is rather broad. However, kinstrife in its
> nastiest form is when brother kills brother or child slaughters
> parent.... VERY nasty repercussions.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 12:36:48 -0000
> From: "Jeff" <jeff.kyer_at_...>
> Subject: Re: Just a thought
>
> >
> > Which is why we don't send the Humakti. :) Besides, Finovani do a
> > much better job with the cows.
> >
>
> Just remember to send along a few herdsmen or farmers or alynxes on
> the raid to actually get the cows moooving. Coming back empty handed
> is just such an embarassment. Warriors are lousy motivators of cattle.
> Finovan always made sure that he had the right people in the right
> place doing the right job.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 12:48:10 -0000
> From: wulfc_at_...
> Subject: Re: Just a thought
>
>
> > Just remember to send along a few herdsmen or farmers or alynxes on
> > the raid to actually get the cows moooving. Coming back empty
> handed
> > is just such an embarassment. Warriors are lousy motivators of
> cattle.
>
> Depends where you stick the sharp bit... But anyway, as we found when
> we ruined some Dinacoli clan's day last week (30 cows & a horse
> stolen with not a blow struck :), what do you actually USE to Herd
> Cattle? Even the Herder Occupational keyword doesn't get 'Herd...'
> ability.
>
> Wulf
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 13:23:24 -0000
> From: "Jeff" <jeff.kyer_at_...>
> Subject: Re: Just a thought
>
> >
> > > Just remember to send along a few herdsmen or farmers or alynxes
> on
> > > the raid to actually get the cows moooving. Coming back empty
> > handed
> > > is just such an embarassment. Warriors are lousy motivators of
> > cattle.
> >
> > Depends where you stick the sharp bit... But anyway, as we found
> when
> > we ruined some Dinacoli clan's day last week (30 cows & a horse
> > stolen with not a blow struck :), what do you actually USE to Herd
> > Cattle? Even the Herder Occupational keyword doesn't get 'Herd...'
> > ability.
> >
> > Wulf
>
> Its called "Know Domestic Animals." My own experiences helping on my
> grandfather's farm in my mispent youth taught me that herding animals
> can be relatively easy IF they are a) not frightened b) don't think
> you're a stranger and c) there aren't any loud noises.... (having
> decent light REALLY helps). It also taught me that there's no end to
> cow-flop - NONE.
>
> All things considered, this becomes a matter of knowning how to get
> the animal to do what you want despite the circumstances. In the case
> of prey animals, its knowing what it will probably do.
>
> Warriors are just not that knowlegable about this sort of thing --
> that's why the more successful cattle raiding bands are a mixed
> affair. Some warriors, some herdsmen, some hunters led by someone they
> respect. Just like in KODP =)
>
> Hope this clarifies!
> Jeff
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 14:20:50 +0100
> From: "Gareth Martin" <gamartin_at_...>
> Subject: RE: Re: Just a thought
>
>
> > Just remember to send along a few herdsmen or farmers or alynxes on
> > the raid to actually get the cows moooving. Coming back empty handed
> > is just such an embarassment. Warriors are lousy motivators
> > of cattle.
> > Finovan always made sure that he had the right people in the right
> > place doing the right job.
>
> I would assume, though, that most warriors would have spent much of their
> youth on distan hills guarding their cattle from other raiders. So
> presumably most adult warriors could hark back to their adolescent skills
> for cattle-herding.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 14:35:46 +0100
> From: "Gareth Martin" <gamartin_at_...>
> Subject: RE: Re: Just a thought
>
>
> > Maybe the menopause is a consequence of natural cult
> > progression for many
> > Ernaldans. So older Vingans, Ernalda the Queen types may stay
> > fertile until
> > they change (if they change) cults.
>
> I might see it as triggering a cult change. As the woman changes through
> life anf growth, she is initiated into different mysteries. I
> would not see
> menopause as a CONSEQUENCE of cult induction, although it could
> probably be
> mythically explained this way.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 14:03:33 -0000
> From: rmv1_at_...
> Subject: Gift Carriers and Historical Fun
>
> [Michael Schwartz replies to my post on carriers of gifts.]
> > The first time I read this, I saw the word *sane* rather
> > than "same". I think it works better that way, don't you? :)
> I would think that if the lawspeaker of the clan was insane, you'd
> best be finding a new clan...
>
> > >>[suggestion by me that the Red Emperor got his ticket
> > >>punched by irate agents of the Cosmos]
> > I am certain the idea occurred to someone else, at some point.
> Perhaps. I think the dramatic potential of having Argrath kick the
> Emperor's bucket is high enough that having the Glorantha do it is
> something of a letdown. Remember, "You Can Be Argrath."
>
> > ... My gamemastering philosophy can be summed up nicely as "Give
> > the characters' their every heart's desire... then threaten to
> > take it away and see how they react."
> My gamemastering philosophy is more like "Give the character's their
> every heart's desire... and show them that what they thought they
> wanted wasn't what they really wanted after all."
>
> Years of Call of Cthulhu gamemastering...
>
> Roland
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 09:57:10 EST
> From: Osentalka_at_...
> Subject: Re: Re: Berserk Kinslaying
>
> Hello Friends,
>
> > > Surely, by definition, kin=members of bloodline?
>
> I have a related question. According to KoS and TR you are not allowed to
> marry (and have sex with) someone of your Clan.
>
> Does this REALLY include the whole clan, or is it "only" your bloodline?
>
> If it is your bloodline, why is that so. If they are not your kin
> by blood,
> why you should care not to engage in sex with them or even marry them?
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Andr�
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 15:05:09 -0000
> From: bethexton_at_...
> Subject: Re: Just a thought
>
> >
> .
> >
> > I would assume, though, that most warriors would have spent much of
> their
> > youth on distan hills guarding their cattle from other raiders. So
> > presumably most adult warriors could hark back to their adolescent
> skills
> > for cattle-herding.
>
> Most adults in western countries had to learn trigonometry in
> school. Take a random sample of adults and get them to try and
> calculate the sin of the angles of a triangle and see how many can
> still do it.
>
> I would assume that the youths who go on to become warriors, if they
> spend hours up on the hills, were the ones mostly given make-work
> chores to keep them from disturbing the cows with all of their
> yelling, running around, and waving of sticks. Of course, there are
> exceptions. Those are the ones who took herding skills in their
> write up :)
>
> Or to put it another way, they can harken back to their youthful
> experience, and use a skill of six. I would suggest that a Dara
> Happen city slicker would not have even that ability to keep the cows
> together.
>
> --Bryan
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 16:03:03 +0100
> From: Benedict Adamson <badamson_at_...>
> Subject: Re: Re: Berserk Kinslaying
>
> I wrote:
> > Surely, by definition, kin=members of bloodline?
> Osentalka_at_... replied:
> >
> > I have a related question. According to KoS and TR you are not
> allowed to
> > marry (and have sex with) someone of your Clan.
> ...
>
> The subject of clans, bloodlines and exogamy has been the cause of
> immense debate on the Glorantha Digest. Basically, the KoS
> information should not be taken as 100% reliable, and isn't even self
> consistent. There were two schools of thought: exogamy means not
> marrying within your bloodline and exogamy means not marrying within
> your clan.
>
> A definitive statement in TR is that it is the latter.
>
> YGMV, of course.
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 16:17:51 +0100
> From: Thom Baguley <t.s.baguley_at_...>
> Subject: Re: PCs and subcults
>
> >So what would you think would be the rarer Subcults from TR?
> >
> >Wulf
>
> Ancient and unusual Orlanthi subcults are listed.
>
> I think this is one reason. In my game I had players be the best of their
> generation. In a clan decimated by old wars that left only a few old
> priests, godi and clan leaders (inner ring) better than them.
>
> More generally the heroes should be the best of the _expendable_ clan
> members. If they fail it is time to bring in the big guns!
>
> Thom
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 07:49:03 -0800
> From: Greg Stafford <Greg_at_...>
> Subject: Fitting In As Adventurers
>
> At 11:09 AM 3/29/2001 -0000, you wrote:
> >I've been wondering why player heros get given jobs of any
> >importance. Starter characters, after all, are highly unlikely to be
> >the best at any given job, with only 5W best skill. Naturally, not
> >every job needs an expert, but why have a PC Lhankor Mhy judge a case
> >when there MUST (Orlanthi must?) be a better lawspeaker around?
>
> Sartar Rising! simply suggests that all player groups have a leader, with
> all the appropriate social connections and xw2 mastered skills. An active
> Narrator character may be needed, and it comes with instructions that
> Orlanthi leaders let their followers do the hard, dirty and most dangerous
> work.
>
> --------
> Greg Stafford
> Issaries, Inc. 900 Murmansk St., Suite 5; Oakland, CA 94607
> Phone: (510) 452 1648 Fax: (510) 302 0385
> Publisher of Hero Wars, Roleplaying in Glorantha See our site at:
> <www.glorantha.com>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 07:54:18 -0800
> From: Greg Stafford <Greg_at_...>
> Subject: Re: Rare cults
>
> At 11:09 AM 3/29/2001 -0000, you wrote:
> >So what would you think would be the rarer Subcults from TR?
> While finishing TR I had what was almost a revelation for me as far as the
> minor cults go.
>
> All the Heortlings worship Orlanth and Ernalda.
> 15% don't.
> ST had* 14 specialty cults, plus the really minor ones. Or
> approximately 1%
> of the population each (average).
> Sartar Population = 180,000 = 90,000 adults = 900 members each for the
> specialty cults.
> JUST BARELY enough for the "Standardized Large Temple" requirements.
>
> The really minor cults, like Babeester Gor or Anna Gor have 90 members in
> all of Sartar.
>
> *"had 14" means that, due to space limitations, we have dropped the entire
> Animist section from it.
> --------
> Greg Stafford
> Issaries, Inc. 900 Murmansk St., Suite 5; Oakland, CA 94607
> Phone: (510) 452 1648 Fax: (510) 302 0385
> Publisher of Hero Wars, Roleplaying in Glorantha See our site at:
> <www.glorantha.com>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 16:07:33 -0000
> From: rmv1_at_...
> Subject: Re: Rare cults
>
> [Greg Stafford clarified cult membership in Sartar and added:]
> > ST had* 14 specialty cults, plus the really minor ones.
> > *"had 14" means that, due to space limitations, we have dropped
> > the entire Animist section from it.
> While the thought that there was that much material is enough to set
> my fingers twitching in anticipation (in addition to the facial tick
> I developed reading what was going to come out in Sartar Rising) I
> must ask: Any word on where and when the Sartarite Animist material
> will come out?
>
> In Anticipation,
>
> Roland
> ------------------------
>
> Oh, and when I saw "Anna Gor" my brain immediately spat out "Anna
> Gornikova." Naughty brain...
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 16:19:02 -0000
> From: markmohrfield_at_...
> Subject: Re: Just a thought
>
>
> > Which is not that deadly. The point of a cattle raid is to take
> > cattle, not to kill people. Even all out war does not kill that many
> > people; murder (including death in war) is an uncommon cause of
> > death.
>
> While not too many people will be killed in a single raid, remember
> that they happen quite often, once every couple of years at lest.
> That's going to add up.
>
> Mark Mohrfield
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 08:15:56 -0800
> From: Greg Stafford <Greg_at_...>
> Subject: Re: Re: Rare cults
>
> At 04:07 PM 3/29/2001 -0000, you wrote:
> >[Greg Stafford clarified cult membership in Sartar and added:]
> >> ST had* 14 specialty cults, plus the really minor ones.
> >> *"had 14" means that, due to space limitations, we have dropped
> >> the entire Animist section from it.
> >While the thought that there was that much material is enough to set
> >my fingers twitching in anticipation (in addition to the facial tick
> >I developed reading what was going to come out in Sartar Rising) I
> >must ask: Any word on where and when the Sartarite Animist material
> >will come out?
>
> I believe it is currently available to the GTA initiates, or will be.
> We plan to put it there first, probably along with some necessary
> explanations about the clarified "new animist rules." Then we will move it
> to the public viewing section.
>
> Heck, depending on word count we may find it stuck into Sartar Rising.
>
> --------
> Greg Stafford
> Issaries, Inc. 900 Murmansk St., Suite 5; Oakland, CA 94607
> Phone: (510) 452 1648 Fax: (510) 302 0385
> Publisher of Hero Wars, Roleplaying in Glorantha See our site at:
> <www.glorantha.com>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 18:16:25 +0100
> From: Wulf Corbett <wulfc_at_...>
> Subject: Re: Rare cults
>
> On Thu, 29 Mar 2001 07:54:18 -0800, Greg Stafford <Greg_at_...>
> wrote:
>
> >*"had 14" means that, due to space limitations, we have dropped
> the entire
> >Animist section from it.
>
> Great. How do I go about withdrawing my GTA membership?
>
> Wulf
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 18:23:34 +0100
> From: Wulf Corbett <wulfc_at_...>
> Subject: Re: Rare cults
>
> On Thu, 29 Mar 2001 18:16:25 +0100, Wulf Corbett
> <wulfc_at_...> wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 29 Mar 2001 07:54:18 -0800, Greg Stafford <Greg_at_...>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>*"had 14" means that, due to space limitations, we have dropped
> the entire
> >>Animist section from it.
> >
> >Great. How do I go about withdrawing my GTA membership?
>
> I withdraw my request, given it may be the only way I (or anyone else)
> gets to see it for months. Animism gets shafted again.
>
> Wulf
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 19:41:04 +0100
> From: Nick Eden <nick_at_...>
> Subject: Re: Re: Berserk Kinslaying
>
> On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 10:41:06 +1000, John Hughes wrote:
>
> >
> >Agreed. it's murder. As usual with Humakti, their liminal status
> makes them
> >a special category.
>
> Sure only if it's done in secret. If done honestly and openly then
> it's just killing. Not that killing kin's good, but murdering kin
> would be appalling. More so than normal.
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Is Carl Hiaassen shaking his head and saying "If I'd
> have written this, no-one would have beleived it?"
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 20
> Date: 29 Mar 2001 18:40:32 -0000
> From: <HeroWars_at_yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: New file uploaded to HeroWars
>
>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HeroWars
> group.
>
> File : /Cleaver/CCEng1[1].doc
> Uploaded by : janjero_at_...
> Description : Upgraded version of Cleaver Csar Chapter 1
>
> You can access this file at the URL
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HeroWars/files/Cleaver/CCEng1%5B1%5D.doc
>
> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit
>
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
>
> Regards,
>
> janjero_at_...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 21
> Date: 29 Mar 2001 18:41:34 -0000
> From: <HeroWars_at_yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: New file uploaded to HeroWars
>
>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HeroWars
> group.
>
> File : /Cleaver/CCEng2.doc
> Uploaded by : janjero_at_...
> Description : Cleaver Csar Chapter 2
>
> You can access this file at the URL
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HeroWars/files/Cleaver/CCEng2.doc
>
> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit
>
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
>
> Regards,
>
> janjero_at_...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 13:58:07 EST
> From: kmnellist_at_...
> Subject: Re: Heroes
>
> In a message dated 3/29/01 11:15:41AM, you write:
>
> << I've been wondering why player heros get given jobs of any
> importance. Starter characters, after all, are highly unlikely to be
> the best at any given job, with only 5W best skill. >>
>
> My understanding was that 5W was pretty high, and that the
> player's Heroes
> were the most useful bunch of character to send of on dangerous jobs.
>
> Keith Nellist
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 19:14:39 -0000
> From: melstra_at_...
> Subject: Re: Heroes
>
> > In a message dated 3/29/01 11:15:41AM, you write:
> >
> > << I've been wondering why player heros get given jobs of any
> > importance. Starter characters, after all, are highly unlikely to
> be
> > the best at any given job, with only 5W best skill. >>
>
> The way I see it the "But God, why do you want me, lowly Moses, to
> lead the Jews out of Egypt???" question is the key to good narrating.
> Every character should ideally feel or be made to feel that he or she
> *is* the best person for the job. (Or, failing that, at least the best
> person available at the time!) This is partly the job of the narrator,
> who should set up an adventure so that each character has motivation
> to do the task or feels uniquely qualified in some way. It's also the
> job of a good role-player to run off and do things he/she is not
> qualified to do, just because someone who *would* be more qualified is
> probably wise enough not to want to touch the hare-brained scheme with
> a ten foot staff.
>
> Having narrated in other systems, I think HW would make character
> motivation even easier to accomplish-- the low-level Lhankor Mhy
> initiate might be _just the thing_ for this situation if the
> higher-level character has enemies or vested interests in the case at
> hand. Since HW puts a focus on backstory, intricate enigmatic
> interference from the Gods and clan ties, building a world where
> _everyone_ is necssary seems self-evident. Or am I all wet?
>
> Babbles off. I'll go back to work now.
>
> -Melanie, who does, indeed suffer from a "Why me" complex on occasion,
> but tries not to let it get the best of her inherent niftiness.
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 18:49:10 +0000
> From: Paul Andrew King <paul_at_...>
> Subject: Re: Rare cults
>
> >
> >So what would you think would be the rarer Subcults from TR?
>
> I would think that ones that *aren't* in TR - at least amongst the
> Heortlanders.
>
> And some Clans are likely to have significant numbers of the more
> unusual ones (as stated for Poverri).
>
> The ones from TR I would expect to be rare, except locally :
> Overdruva, Belveren, Kadone, Desemborth, Mastakos (if chariots are
> falling out of use, Niskis, Orvanshagor, Varanorlanth, Poverri.
> --
> --
> "The T'ang emperors were strong believers in the pills of
> immortality. More emperors died of poisoning from ingesting minerals
> in the T'ang than in any other dynasty" - Eva Wong _The Shambhala
> Guide to Taoism_
>
> Paul K.
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 13:14:40 -0800
> From: "Roderick and Ellen Robertson" <rjremr_at_...>
> Subject: Masai repond to Foot and Mouth Disease
>
>
> The Masai are some of my favorite people (they own all the cows in the
> world) - here's how they respond to Britain's F&M program...
>
> Apropos Glorantha - their notion of Cattle-as-wealth can be used not only
> for the Orlanthi, but other herders - The Praxian and their herd
> animal, the
> Grazer or Pentan & horses, etc.
>
> RR
>
>
>
> The Masai respond to Foot and Mouth.
>
> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/ap/20010323/wl/kenya_foot_and_mouth_2.html
>
> Friday March 23 7:33 AM ET
> Maasai Herders Protest in Kenya
>
> By ALEXANDRA ZAVIS, Associated Press Writer
>
> SUSUA, Kenya (AP) - Cloaked in trademark red shawls with layers
> of brightly
> colored beads around their necks, hundreds of Maasai herders converge on
> this dusty town on the southern end of Kenya's portion of the Great Rift
> Valley for the twice-weekly cattle market.
>
> Cows are central to the lives of the nomadic herdsmen who have been deeply
> disturbed by news that hundreds of thousands of livestock have been killed
> in faraway Britain in a bid to stamp out an outbreak of foot-and-mouth
> disease.
>
> Tribal tradition holds that these herders are the true custodians
> of all the
> world's cows, and the notion of a mass slaughter of otherwise healthy
> animals is not only horrifying in theory - they take it very personally.
>
> ``If the European people were here in Africa, we could have
> raided them for
> this,'' Nicholas Tanyai said angrily, as he looked over cows for
> sale at the
> corral on the edge of town, about 50 miles northwest of the capital,
> Nairobi.
>
> ``Just bring those animals that you are killing, and we will buy them.''
>
> Foot-and-mouth is endemic in Kenya, as in many other countries in Africa,
> the Middle East, Asia and South America, where an outbreak barely causes a
> stir. A relatively mild livestock disease which strikes cloven-hoofed
> animals such as sheep, pigs and cows, foot-and-mouth poses no
> medical threat
> to humans.
>
> The Maasai equate it with a human cold - they use the same word for both
> illnesses - treating the sores that appear on the hooves and in the mouths
> of infected animals with boiled herbs and salt and waiting for the disease
> to pass.
>
> While the virus can significantly reduce the milk and meat output of
> selectively bred European cattle, its effects on indigenous breeds are
> minimal apart from in the very young, which can die, said Brian Perry, a
> veterinary epidemiologist at the Nairobi-based International Livestock
> Research Institute.
>
> Kenyan cows are lower-yielding to begin with, and they have also developed
> greater resistance to the disease, he said.
>
> The panic that has gripped Britain and other Western countries has more to
> do with international trade than the nature of the disease.
>
> A country that imports livestock touched by the highly infectious virus
> risks infecting its own herds, thereby jeopardizing its own
> export business.
>
> British meat and livestock were banned by the European Union, the United
> States, Canada and other countries after the outbreak was
> detected Feb. 19.
>
> The virus can be spread by anything it touches, including truck tires, the
> soles of shoes, or contaminated hay, water and manure. Wind can
> carry it up
> to 40 miles.
>
> Following on the heels of a mad cow disease scare - a livestock
> ailment that
> has been linked to a brain-wasting variant in humans - British officials
> were quick to impose movement restrictions and a slaughter program. More
> than 200,000 animals have been killed, their carcasses burned,
> and the ashes
> buried in deep pits. Many more could be condemned.
>
> Movement by people in the countryside has also been discouraged, with
> officials closing country footpaths, halting horse racing, quarantining
> suspect farms and slaughterhouses and shutting down parks and nature
> reserves.
>
> In the scrubby grasslands around Susua, where zebra and the occasional
> giraffe mix with the grazing cows, sheep and goats, Nanna Kakatleya's eyes
> widen in horror at the prospect.
>
> ``If the government tells me to kill my cattle, then they will kill me,''
> said the elderly herder, a member of Kenya's majority Kikuyu
> tribe, who was
> armed with clubs and arrows as he watched over his animals.
>
> Cows are at the heart of the herder society, representing food, wealth,
> status, and a source of cash for school fees or the price of a bride.
>
> Slaughter to stave off an outbreak of the disease isn't an option in a
> country where the government does not have the money to compensate farmers
> for the loss of their herds. And it wouldn't be effective anyway
> unless wild
> animals such as the migrating wildebeest were also culled, Perry said.
>
> When outbreaks do occur in Kenya, the authorities usually impose a
> quarantine and vaccinate animals in the affected area.
>
> In Europe, however, the injections have been discontinued because they are
> not 100 percent reliable and can hinder tracking of the disease, as
> vaccinated animals carry the same antibodies as those infected.
>
> An immunization campaign would also cost European countries - apart from
> Britain and France, which has also now been touched by the disease - their
> current foot-and-mouth-free status in world trade markets.
>
> That is not a concern in Kenya, where most of the meat and dairy
> production
> is for domestic consumption.
>
> Delamere Estates, one of the country's largest beef and dairy producers
> which operates like western cattle ranches, vaccinates its imported black
> and white milking cows every four months as a precaution, general manager
> Renaldo Retief said.
>
> He admitted to being as puzzled about Britain's handling of the
> outbreak as
> the herders in nearby Susua, where Moses Kaleki contemplated the
> issue from
> a bench in front of the town's rickety cafe.
>
> ``Maybe the disease is dangerous to you Europeans,'' he wondered.
> ``Is that
> why you are killing your cows?''
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
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