Who was probably too tired to fight off a knee jerk response last night and is sorry. Honest.
> The cult writeup specifies that an Odaylan must bring pelts to a
stead at
> least once a year on furring day. At least some of these are gifted
to the
> Earth, the others (so the writeup tells us) are either left without
trading
> or traded for essentials such as weapons. I'd imagine the pelts are
from
> *all* animals butchered, in accordance with the 'waste nothing'
ethic. As
> with other holy day transactions with steads (Berry Festival, Spring
Morn)
> these seem primarily ritual in nature, and, by the writeup,
seemingly in
> part intended to force reluctant wilderness dwellers into social
contact.
Yes. I admit I find the cult a bit _too_ anti-social for my liking. I supose in places with much more wilderness (Talastar, Saird, Ralios) they would 'fit' better. But we've got a long tradition of Odaylans in Dragon Pass espcially as they seem to be in the top 3 choices for cults (according to a previous poll. Could we do that poll again, James?)
> While there's plenty of room for campaign variation in this, the
above might
> explain the source of my particular perspective, and the
perspectives on
> Odaylans I develeloped over the last five or six years.
True enough. I suppose I am too pragmatic to have the right mindset for that. But pragmatism IS a fairly common characteristic amongst hunter/gatherers. =)
> There are many answers to this, and the writeup returns several
times to the
> extremely ambivalent relationships Odaylans have with
'civilisation'. but
> one answer is: they hibernate.
Hibernating takes a lot of work, I suspect. Or I may be making it too difficult. But yeah, they probably do den up during Dark season like bears. I had forgotten that _magical_ point when referencing it with historical practice.
> Not consciously, but its an interesting perspective to consider.
Totemism is
> a complete identification with an object, usually an animal species.
Notice
> that Odaylans do not hunt/worship the Bear, they *are* the bear.
Totemic
> priviledges and restrictions are complex, and gms can adjust them to
their
> own needs, but most Heortling clans would recognise a difference
between
> wearing a totemic pelt you hunted yourself and one picked up cheap
from
And what of the urbanized folks in Boldhome, etc? =)
> One-Eyed JarJar the Etyrian - no self respecting berserk would have
a
> wolfskin with a 'souvenir of Dublin ' branded on the back.:) If
clans did
Unless he went to Dublin and looted it. =) Still, good points.
> > BZZZZT. Check Russian or Canadian history. It took quite some
time
> > to danage the animal populations, in fact it took the advent of
modern
> > hunting and trapping techinques and baits.
>
> I certainly bow to superior knowledge on this. The brief bit of
reading I
> *have* done suggests that severe shortages of animals affected the
> Canadian/US trade 3 times before the market's eventual collapse in
1850 -
Yep. That is true. Not sure how well its tied to overhunting by the natives (who WERE, by the 1800's systematically hunting for furs), settlements and the boom-dieoff cycle that any animal is subject to.
> ironically because beaver skin hats went out of fashion in Europe.
Is that
> right? Empires have fallen for stranger reasons I guess.
Out of fashion after 300 years. Sorta. Actually, a better material came along for making felt out of, IIRC. And silk had suddenly become _cheap_.
> Absolutely. I thought of but didn't put my own rejoinder. Megafauna
and man
> never mix, to name but one wave of native extinctions. I've
certainly no
Ah, I had wondered. I do encounter a sort of 'warm fuzzy goodness & rose coloured glasses' frequently when dealing with native issues
> illusions there. But there are questions of scale and imperative. A
trapper
> can only eat so much and wear so many pelts, even if he's supporting
kin,
Hmm. Well, in the case of Buffalo Jump and similar native drives, the bulk of the animal meat and hides were lost due to spoilage of the herd before they could be butchered (or the meat was tainted by viscera).
> but an economic imperative *rewards* wholesale destruction. And
native
> sustainability traditions *are* very real - their lives depend on
it. They
See above. The imperative is that if there's plenty, one harvests it NOW for when there's not plenty. And if you've got a better method, use it because you may need that food later, when its not around.
> can't go to Macas if they killed one too many deer last season - the
deer
> are gone forever, and the people starve. There tends to be a touch
of new
> age spirituality liable to creep into to our conceptions of these
> traditions-rightly or wrongly- but the traditions *are* real, are at
times
Eeeeeeeeyessssss. But my own direct experiences have left me with a rather cynical view of the natives, I fear.
> very different from our own consumerist/materialist
standard-of-living
> driven mindsets, and *are* excellent science. Something like
Suzuki's
> 'Wisdom of the Elders' achieves a fair balance between science and
> spirituality in describing the advantages, limitations and
challenges of
> these mindsets.
Er, you've lost me here.
> Nothing ever is, hence we campaign. :) While I have developed a
fairly
> in-depth hunting mythology for the Far Place over a number of years,
there's
> plenty of scope for other perspectives and philosophies. That's one
of the
> joys of our hobby. I'm not trying to place value judgements on
history or
> hunting - except for the obvious one that large-scale exploitation
of
> limited resources is usually a bad idea. I'm trying, in what I hope
is an
And often happens, by the locals in question, if it seems valuable.
> amicable way, to sort through a variety of possibilities in search
of an
> elusive Odaylan mind set. Those following the thread may have
noticed me
> changing positions slightly as the discussion progressed - I'm
learning and
> listening and chucking out ideas that no longer fit.
>
> If I have upset anyone along the way, this has not been my
intention, and I
> apologise whole-heartedly.
As well here. Been a bit grumpy of late.
> And so to bed.
Augh. Not Samuel Peyps. I can't hack that. =) Had to read him as source material for 7th Sea. Gah!
Jeff
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