I don't think we really disagree. Many elements of it are wrong for Sartar, and I think we both percieve Heortling towns as more Viking. However there are elements, such as organization, rights and duties of citizens, division into quarters that should inform our thinking about the organisation of Heortling towns. Remember Dorasor, the cities founder, was heavily influenced by Sartar. Its a question of removing elements that are born from local climate, lack of wood for a building material, the presence of the rubble and the resultant 'dungeoneering' feel to get at the underlying elements that MIGHT be common to Sartarite towns (and to some extent Heortland towns as that's where he came from).
Towns, influenced by the Heortlander Sartar, are, IMO, different from the tribal and clan hill forts and villages, not simply just an expansion of them, but something influenced by outside forces.
> Inside I'd expect to see longhouses, grouped by bloodline and clan,
with the addition of homes of the crafters and other such city people.
Some hill forts are probably dominated by the clan in whose territory they lie, with a mixing of others who are drawn to urban environments to pursue a religion or trade. I'm not so sure about towns, though. Ingo's material on Jonstown has a similar supposition that one clan, owned the hill fort around which the settlement grew, and they gained priveldges when the fort expanded to a town and was opened to others.
This kind of horse trading to establish rights and responsibilites when creating social structures beyond the clan seems to be the Heortling way, a la The Making of the Storm Tribe in KoDP.
As a result, I suspect the working of each 'urban' Heorlting settlement is similar but unique. Great for narrators to give urban arreas a unique feel and build in adventure hooks.
> I wouldn't like to think that they are just another bunch of
pseudo-medieval towns. High stone walls, and squalid houses packed
close together within.
Complete agreement, but rememeber those medieval towns evolved from the Dark Ages ones, its just a slighty greater unwinding of the stack of history. Those are what the Sartarite towns may evolve towards...
>There are majestetic temples and such one doesn't much see in the
viking settlements.
Though I'm not sure that they are like 'churches' or 'cathedrals'. Orlanth temples will still be on hills and open to the air etc. Form follows function.
> I have a feeling that the orlanthi wind magic could actually help
keep the smell down.
Not so sure. Towns and forts would probably be full of pigs, outside thunderboxes in the gardens, much more crowded than people are used to, and those Orlanthi don't bathe. The wind might help but... Besides I like the idea of foppish Heorltanders clutching a perfumed hankerchief to their nose as they dodge the piles of pig shit on their route through town.
Sartar and his kin also befriended the dwarfs and learned some of their skills. Perhaps there's a form of plumbing, or at least good open drains?
Hill forts no. The Towns, maybe. Don't forget excrement and urine are commodities that the stickpickers would probably collect and sell to tanners and for growing vegatables.I like the sewers in Furthest in UW1, but I don't think they will be everywhere. Go with whay you need.
Sorry to go on. Bit of a favourite topic of mine =)
Ian Cooper
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