>> Me (Ian Cooper):
> >The King gets the clans to maintain,patrol and defend their section
> of road and give you a tax rebate for it. The Lunars may have taken
> over many of these duties in hostile areas, though they undoubtedly
> tax you for the privilege.
You're assuming that the clans pay taxes to the Prince of Sartar. I think that each Tribe has a unique "understanding" with the throne of Sartar, and each was forged with a lot of blood, sweat and tears. Clans pay tribute/taxes to the king of the tribe, the king of the tribe pays to the throne. People only pay one "layer" of taxes - Households to the Bloodline, Bloodlines to the Chief, Chief to Tribal king, Tribal king to Prince of the land. Not like the US situation of a household paying City, County, State and Federal taxes.
My take on the Princeship of Sartar is much more like the Scottish Highlands than Norman (or even Saxon) England - "Yeah, we know there's a king in Boldhome, but *I'm* chief here, and he is far away". The cities may pay real taxes, but just try to get them from a remote chief with all his men around him. And if you decide to "make an example" of him, you'll make all the other chiefs re-evaluate their relationship to you "Hey, he may have been a stinking Poss, but he was a chief just like me. If the king can do that to him, I might be next. I'll have to find a strong ally and recruit some more thanes to make sure it doesn't happen."
Getting a Heortling to pay taxes requires finesse and tying into the traditional cattle economy. These taxes will usually be payments made for specific purposes - for those that have played "Fall of the House of Malan" the War Tax given to Madblood Malan is such an example. And if the original purpose of the tax is removed (The Malani stop being a War Clan), then the tax stops. Trying to establish a new tax is a painful and difficult process, including negotiation, threats of force, threats of outside enemies, etc. Simply calling on the loyalty of the chief is probably not the best strategy (especially as the next chief might not be so loyal, and may become chief soon after the clan is told of the new tax)!
Without your Tax Rebate, you have no incentive for the clan to maintain the road. Granting the taking of tolls was a standard privilege of the Medieval Royal courts - This Noble had the right to collect tolls for the upkeep of this bridge, that noble had the right to collect the Market tolls of this city, etc. Allowing clans to toll the roads reduces banditry on the clans part! Now, some people may see little difference between a weaponthane saying "Toll is 1 cow per 20" and banditry, but a bandit would just take the whole shebang and leave the merchant with nothing...
> John:
> >I believe that Lunar tolls (and associated market taxes) are an
> easy way to raise the necessary funds to maintain garrisons. The
> highways and major markets are the easiest to tax and toll, as they
> have to be closely monitored anyway for security and protection of
> dignitaries.
>
> I prefer the principle of tax over tolls for a number of reasons.
>
> First there is the problem of currency. While some in Sartar have
> access to coins (or substitutes like hack silver), others still work
> through barter. Collecting tolls without widespread currency is a
> difficult.
Tolls can take a percentage of your goods: "You want to pass through our lands? Hand over the 20th part of everything you've got". What you lose because the traveller is a pauper, you make up for with the traders with 10 wagons full of "stuff".
> Roads and bridges require regular maintenance. Anglo-Saxons kings
> made their maintenance obligations of the local earldomen. Maybe
> Sartarite Kings make maintenance or roads and bridges, and
> patrolling them, an obligation of the tribes (or confederations).
> You can either meet your obligations by paying goods to hire labor,
> or do it yourself. This principal probably extends down from the
> tribe to the clan.
Hmm, my take on the roads in Sartar is that they are magical not only in binding the country together, but also being relatively impervious to the ravages of time - those Dwarf-built bridges won't fall down (okay, maybe if a Balrog and a Wizard have a fight on one...).
Now, a special tax for the magical rituals to maintain the magic of the roads, I can see *that*.
> A related question is whether Sartarite towns home to 'royal mints',
> and how widely distributed currency is. Sartar would probably have
> wanted to encourage the use of currency to simplify trade.
I'd say not - after all, the coin of the realm isn't a "Sartar" (substitute other names for coins - "Crown", "Torc", "Sar", whatever. I'll just call it a "Sartar"), it's a "Lunar" - indicating either that there wasn't anything before it, or that the "Sartar" was so badly devalued that nobody *wanted* to use it. Even in Norman England, the old Saxon "Shilling" and "Penny" were still in use, rather than the French "Dernier" or "Sou".
> Me (Ian Cooper):
> >Option A: The King's Road is free to all to travel without let or
> hindrance and subject to the King's Peace. Anyone breaking the
> King's Peace has to pay his own worth in wergild to the King as well
> as any other fines.
>
> >Option B: The Kingdom does not interfere in clan affairs. Travel
> across any tula requires the permission of those who own it. You
> perform the Greeting on meeting locals or patrols, but you do not
> ask for hospitality just for passage.
>
> >I'd like to suggest just that. I think both answers are true: the
> clans maintain their customary authority over their tulas - however,
> travellers on the Royal Roads are under the protection of the House
> of Sartar.
>
> Ah, the 'both Option A and Option B' compromise. I can see this as
> an extension of the idea of obligations. The tribes are responsbile
> for maintaining the King's peace and pass the obligatin down to the
> clans on their own tula (and maybe patrolling into the wilds in
> between). Again the Lunars may now tax unfriendly tribes and use
> their own troops instead.
It's not the King's Peace unless the King is going to show up demanding wergild for a molested traveller.
You can certainly decide that the Road is considered the "King's Tula", and so once on it you are under the king's protection, but again, the King is far away and the clan weaponthanes are *here*. It would take a real kick-ass-and -take-names king to provide protection on "his" roads. My take on it is that you have the same protection that Prince John gives travellers through Sherwood Forest during Robin Hood's time. A naif may take the attitude that "The King's Peace" extends all along the roads, but anyone with a lick of sense will understand exactly as far at that extends (about as far along the road as can be seen from the gates of Boldhome).
Roderick
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