John :
> > I must confess
> > to thinking this could have been far more effectively acheived by
> > starting the Hero Wars in medias res, as the Iliad, Odyssey, Aeneid,
> > and most Arthurian sagas ** do.
> Beyond that, essentially literary techniques such as media res beginnings
> are difficult in roleplaying for several reasons.
I think you have misconstrued.
I'm not really talking about HW scenarios & campaigns beginning in medias res, but about the presentation of the HW timelines. The timelines are background material, not scenarios per se. Which is of course a peculiarity of the "plot-less" gamebook genre.
KAP starts in medias res from this POV, because the spiritual conflicts caused by the Presence of the Grail in Britain are in full swing, and KAP knights can therefore immediately plunge into the thick of things, whilst simultaneously attempting to preserve their home, people, and increase their glory, etc. Of course, KAP has the IMMENSE advantage of being locked into a literary tradition deliberately geared towards the possibility of further improvisation and infinite additions by future scribes. So ideal is that matrix, in fact, that it probably didn't need much thinking about during the design phase. Infinite adventures can be introduced into the timeline of Arthur's Reign, because the events and the posibilities for internal and external conflicts are so clearly defined, and so clearly open-structured.
I think that the Heortling material would have been more dynamic if Heortling normalcy had been presented _at the same time_ (or close enough) as the initial crises of the Hero Wars in Sartar. That is, if _Sartar_ had been depicted in such a state of crisis, although people's campaigns and scenarios would certainly begin more as you suggest, & not in medias res.
> More generally, I don't think roleplaying forms ever map one to one onto
> literary forms, and at times are at extreme loggerheads. Spontaneity and
> freedom mean less control and less crafting. Genre is constant, but campaign
> story structures tend to be simpler, more in keeping with mythology than
> literature.
Except that mythology is an eminently literary genre ...
I'm not worried, here, about basic or individual HW gamemastering methods, although they are certainly interesting to discuss.
I think that Issaries * has * mapped their presentation of the Sartar campaign material to over- "literary" forms, AKA Act One : Presentation (TR, ST, BA) ; Act Two : Conflict (OiD, ?) ; etc ...
I'm also worried that the presentation of the gameworld environment of Hero Wars period Dragon Pass has been too heavily skewed towards the internal conflicts of the Sartari, or rather to the internal aspect of Orlanth's war against Rufelza to the detriment of the external aspect and external conflicts.
Both aspects need to be presented of course, and I realise that the order of presentation that Greg chose has the advantage that these internal conflicts cannot now be ignored or quickly set aside (as they may very well have been in a more balanced presentation), but I do have the impression that there's been some structural overcompensation away from the too-obvious need for external conflict.
> Mythic rather than literary forms are what Glorantha is all about. While we
> can never discard the direct inspiration of film and television, I've always
> looked to myth and epic poetry as the prime fonts of Gloranthan story.
I agree !
Glorantha is a dynamic relationship of three meta-elements :
* Cosmos, Rules Background, Cultures, the Uber-Arc * Player Characters and Heroic (Re-)Action * Enemy Forces and (Re-)Action (Narrator)
Myth is of course the single most efficient way of structuring these elements during gameplay (narrowly but definitely outrunning the wargaming approach), into stories.
My point is that all gaming literature is just one meta-element of roleplaying,
and I believe that the effective separation of the internal description of the Sartari from the description of their external struggle against the Lunars (yet to be published) is unfortunate, because it possibly breaks and certainly weakens the background material (from the non-gloranthaphile and/or beginner POV, that is).
> And what are the great themes of, say, Sartarite myth, the sort of themes we
> can access and recreate in a rp campaign? Some of them might be...
These are all _great_ , but again they are skewed towards the internal aspects of Sartari roleplaying, even the apparently Apollonian ones like "Violence is always an option" or "Any action is better than no action".
Of course, for the purposes of Sartari RPing, the skew _is_ justified, because one's actions among strangers should certainly be shaped by these mythic themes. But the skew needs to be balanced (not ruined) by a few extra minority/enemy beliefs.
> Additions anyone?
Lunarized versions of the same ?
More Anti-Shepelkirt proverbs ?
What is Horror and What is Chaos ?
Add a paragraph suggesting that there are Bad People who act otherwise, and that's why they're Evil / Foolish / Mad ?
Julian Lord
-- ____________________________________________________ Sumwhyle wyth wormez he werrez, and with wolues als, Sumwhyle with wodwos, that woned in the knarrez, Bothe wyth bullez and berez, and borez otherquyle, And etaynez, that hym aneled of the heze felle;
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