Because this is OpenHeroQuest, where such things are appropriate. Besides, I missed the chance to weigh in the first time.
> >>...shows your own raw insecurities,
> >>rather than anything about any
> >>supposed behavior by Americans.
>
> Most people would concede that my opinions on
> Mr Joe Average American, whether accurate or
> not, are shared by the vast majority of people
> who have access to global communications.
So, your belief is that the vast majority of people who have access to global communications believe that Americans believe they own the world? Or something else?
BTW, get it right. It's just Canada that we secretly own.
> >>Among other things, what makes
> >>us superior to many countries...
>
> Which ones are you inferior to?
None by a distinctly large margin. There are many that are approximately as good. There are many countries that would be superior than America for people with certain beliefs, desires, or lifestyles.
> >>...we conquered western Europe
> >>and Japan...
>
> Are you referring to World War II?
Yes.
> Isn't that the one where you turned up four
> years late? And everyone else just hung
> around waiting for you to come along and win
> it?
So what? Your original point was that Americans think they own everything and that we were cocky. My points was that--unlike most European powers, who tried to carve up the entire third world among themselves--we effectively occupied Europe and Japan and gave them back to the residents. This is a counter-example to our supposed tendency to believe that we own the world and to be unjustifiably cocky.
> Remind me, who came second in that one?
The USSR--a great counter-example. They came, they conquered, they owned for 50 years. Looks like they were unjustifiably cocky.
> >>I think we have a right to some pride.
>
> Oh, I do too, and did not say otherwise, which
> you would no doubt have noticed had you bothered
> with the whole thread.
I read the thread. Most of it did not respond to your assertion that Americans believe they own the world and are unjustifiably cocky. The closest phenomenon that I see is Americans being proud of their country and the culture (even if it is finding chocolate eggs and eating turkey). I see nothing wrong with this.
> What I objected to was Mr Joe Average
> American's ignorance (due to his
> American education) of the USA's place
> in the world, both past and present.
No, you objected to (a) Americans believing they own the world and (b) that Americans are unjustifiably cocky.
But to address this new point: During 1941-1991, that place has been "leader of the free world." Now it is "sole superpower." I doubt any American is unaware of these facts. What facts would you propose to introduce that would diminish Americans' pride in their country (on balance since we have made mistakes). BTW, don't bother with Vietnam -- we already absorbed that lesson and agree that we committed many wrongs.
> >>That's not to say that other
> >>countries (e.g., Britain) don't also
> >>have reason to be proud.
>
> Does your generosity extend to countries like Iraq?
> Afghanistan? Vietnam?
Yes. They have reasons to be proud. They also have reasons to be ashamed. On balance, America has more reasons to be proud than ashamed.
Iraq, as a political entity, probably does not have many reasons to be proud; however, I'm not sure that average people there identify the Iraqi state with their country the same way I do mine. They certainly have reasons to be proud of an ancient culture. Up until the Iran-Iraq war, I would have guessed that they had plenty of reasons to be proud of their country. From there, it seems like it would have gone downhill.
Afghanistan has reasons to be proud (never conquered by outsiders alone--something of a myth, but some reality), and many more not to be (treatment of women, foreigners, cultural relics; utter failure to develop any economic assets other than opium; etc.). On balance, they should be ashamed of their country. The top reasons I would suspect many are not are (a) they identify more with Islam than Afghanistan and (b) they identify more with their tribes than with Afghanistan.
I'm not familiar enough with Vietnam to make a judgment, but I would think that defeating a superpower's attempt to impose an unpopular, undemocratic, vicious regime would be reason for pride, even if that effort led to an (perhaps less)unpopular, undemocratic, vicious regime.
In any case, these are things for each country's citizens to judge for themselves. My point was that you seem to believe that Americans should not be allowed to be proud of their country, and that their pride is just due to ignorance. I disagree -- I think Americans' pride is justified.
> >>You're a pencil-necked geek
> >>whose mamma still dresses him.
>
> With all due respect Chris, I think that says
> more about you than it does about me.
Touche! But you really should retaliate in kind--you know, something about rednecks or hillbillies having carnal relations with their parents. I think the rules of this list requires it, so try harder, you limp-wristed Eurotrash.
Screw all of you very much.
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