Re: New URL for HQ Greece wiki

From: David Weihe <blerg2_at_dGe5Gyi8BrZoKAMvKFdlsTWy89L4Zol8XQ7-IdY-HvWO7DfCq7G71gayDiycloDMDA6Oo>
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 10:08:09 -0700 (PDT)


> From: Guy Hoyle <ghoyle1_at_0pQ010HR6iXzCJsi_l8njoeTQr2vRlQegZ7z8hYbjlEX_YL6N2L7cccHqP-Za1BAMZs2wpH05plIoyk.yahoo.invalid>
> Sam, thanks for the comments. I'm just not sure that Sorcery and
> Animism really feel much like Ancient Greek religion to me, nor
> does Theism as it is in HQ. The heroes of Greek myth typically
> got their powers either through the blood of the gods in their
> veins, or as a gift from a favorite god; there may have been a
> few exceptions but I don't recall any right off hand. Joining a
> cult to get affinities and feats doesn't really model this, at
> least to me.

Odysseus did magic "on his own", after talking to a lower level diety, Calypso, for advice. He used that advice to summon Tyresias (sp?), a Theban prophet from a generation or so ago, for more advice. I believe that Aeneas did similar necromancy, though I cannot remember the incident as well.

Several people in the Illiad are refered to in a fashion that implies that they were devotees, usually to Ares (Menelaus, most notably).

OTOH, it looks like few could use Affinities or Feats for direct, D&D-style, magic like killing at a distance without using a bow or spear to hold the effect. OT3rd hand, we know almost nothing of the rites of Hecate, but she was supposedly often propitiated to get minor spells (at the level of Huck Finn's magic to perhaps as high as the Death Curse supposedly put on Germanicus Caesar) which might do action-at-a-distance (at least until Aristotle declares it impossible).

Most Homeric magic involved becoming Inspired by the appropriate diety, which sounds like either Hero-forming or else temporarily integrating a spirit or daemon (which I think have no great known difference, in Greek Mythology, any more than it did in Glorantha until Daka Fal [or equivalent pantheon diety] separated them).

It seems to me that the Greeks were never at the magical sophistication of an Orlanthi clan, but might occasionally match a Pelorian association, where almost everybody is just a pantheon worshipper. In "Report On The Orlanthi" it mentions that almost all Orlanthi worship heroically (in the view of its Lunar/Solar writer and readers), whereas we know that most are "just" unconcentrated initiates; this implies that one should expect most cultures' magic to be much lower powered, even though many Yelm-worshipping Solar nobles trace their lines back to their gods (just like many Achaean-era heroes).

> > Also, shirley sacrifice is a way to tap into the gods' magic.
>
> It's a way to ask for favors from the gods, yes, but the gods are
> still doing the work. We do need to address sacrifices and divine
> intervention at some point, though.

In Theism, the Gods always do the work, as far as the worshippers claim. If you try to claim that YOU are doing the magic, you had better be planning to be worshipped, yourself, soon, or expect a thunderbolt, or at least a fly biting your steed while you are flying.

And don't call him Shirley.

> > Similarly,
> > your hero's worship skills, relationship to temple, etc, could be
> > the prime skills to get juju from the gods. Make common magic more
> > powerful?
>
> To me, "common magic" in its concentrated form is more like what
> witches like Circe and Medea have. They can use it actively or
> passively. It usually requires rituals and sacrifices and
> paraphernalia.

That sounds more like HQ Sorcery to me.

Assume that almost no one knows how to avoid mixed worship, as they worship their household "gods" with sacrifices, even though they are actually spirits. Assume that almost no one initiates deeper than the pantheon level, and those mostly to Mystery Cults that give little useful magic. The few that do initiate and know how to avoid mixed or inappropriate worship become famous magicians, or else called "Beloved of Ares/Athena/Apollo/Artemis/Zeus/Unknown God". And no bards know enough magic to give a God-Learner-style analysis.                 



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