As I mentioned before in passing, I live with a lesbian couple and I love them dearly. Platonically.
>Many of us feel miffed that it is suggested that it
>is infact almost a cult geas. Thats not a position (so far) with
>cults like Heler or Nandan.
I certainly object even to the implication that lesbianism is more pious, is divinely encouraged.
It changes Vinga from a cult about flexibility in gender roles, to a cult of the transgendered, that also gets used by people who just want gender role flexibility (but who are, implicitly, doing it wrong).
>In fact I love the points that David Cake
>has made in this debate.
Thank you.
>Jeff (a lovely chap who I have met and hope would not be adverse to
>sharing a beer or three at a con sometime) fanned the flames with
>some intensely unpopular views of the loyal daughter.
Yes indeed. Jeff is indeed a lovely chap, who I have in the dim distantpast shared a beer or three with (and if certain mysterious things I can't talk about come to pass, hope to share more than a few with again).
I hope the occasional frank exchange of views won't be a dampener on that. After all, I forgave him for being a Republican long ago.
>And further, it
>seems that his position is 'well, Greg me and Mark think it, and
>ultimately we are the arbiters of canon.' Further disturbing
>revelations flowed from Jeff about the wholesale deletion and re-
>write of Leika (a one time player character) to fit into the mold of
>the fiction they would like to create about her. One of the things I
>always enjoyed about Glorantha was that some of the historical events
>were gamed out, and charmingly often with Greg as GM.
>
>The depth opf bitterness springs I suspect from the seeming
>disregard, at least from Jeff, to the feelings of the Gloranthan
>community at large on what many of us consider to be a key issue.
Yep. We are all doing it wrong. Ruining the deep mythic Glorantha he sees, by wanting to corrupt it with all these ideas that
>Jeff has largely dismissed John Hughes vent as well, which I find
>geenrally disturbing. I love it that Jeff is writing for Glorantha. I
>dislike some of the direction some of this has taken.
I also love Johns writing. It has a very distinct voice and style, quite different to Gregs or Jeffs inclinations - and live Oliver Dickinsons work, that gives it a real life and strength and makes it particularly valuable.
I know Johns work has greatly helped me get a different sense of the Orlanthi overall, but particularly a distinct sense of Far Point.
>
>Stew makes a scary point about some brilliant writers who will no
>longer work on Glorantha.
Indeed.
>Maybe Vinga presents a watershed for me. A line in the sand. Maybe
>its time that GAG can go boil its head and I'll turn up to cons and
>meals and chat and game with Jane and John and David and a whole host
>aof like minded people about a Vinga and a Sartar that the current
>executive seem intent on strangling. When the Vingan Lesbian
>Superhero and the Ernaldan capo scenario's are published you will
>have some buyers, but I wont be one of them.
Actually, I'd quite cheerfully buy either. I am happy for the the various cults to be big enough to contain more than one conception (as I said in my only post to WOG on the issue). There are honourable Humakti, and stone cold psycho Humakti. There are Vingan dykes and Vingan ladettes. There are mumsy Ernaldans and callous clan matriarch Ernaldans.
I have no problem with the idea that there are Vingan lesbians, or that the cult is attractive to some people of that sexual inclination. I don't even have a problem with the idea that Vingan lesbians are a stereotype in the Heortling mind, and the fyrd makes smutty jokes about it.
I don't even have a problem with the idea that most Heortlings are mostly pretty damn sexist. Its been pretty obvious from the RQ1 days. But there has been the 'Orlanthi all' idea to keep that from killing play etc, and its obviously (from the presence of notable female warrior chiefs, etc) been part of Glorantha reality that there are a reasonable number of individuals.
I DO have a problem with the idea that these probitions are reflected in 'divine displeasure' and take the status of religious taboo (even in those deities whose whole role is to provide an out to the system of rigid gender roles).
I DO have a problem with the idea that the 'deep mythic' nature of the deities of Glorantha is pretty damn sexist, and gender essentialist. I do have a problem with the idea that one of the cults whose specific role, in the culture and in the game, is to provide a way around the sexism of the culture, is decided to be insufficiently sexist and really needs to have more added back in, to make it clear that its not the Heortlings that are sexist, but at the very least the deep unassailable roots of their culture, and possibly Glorantha itself.
I DO have a problem with the idea that major creative decisions, overruling those made by others, appear to be making their decisions on the basis that because they apparently can't get their heads around the idea of separate social gender roles and sexual identity, the two are divinely the same (and the gods punish those who don't agree).
Which are all essentially arguments addressing specific issues, but should be taken in the context of those specific issues being symptomatic of long term tendencies.
Cheers
David
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