Re: Terror in war

From: oswaldtrimling <oswaldtrimling_at_2CKCNkU0DMpXCvbQNRtkTlF5bVJhRmNBZ10-6DhgAM-Pr_CSW8Bjb3ajEX3NE>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:43:50 -0000


Jeff Richard:

> > I note that you haven't actually answered any
> > of the *questions* in my last post...
>
> What, who is the "bad" Orlanthi instead of Kallyr?

Not quite :) I was actually asking who is the 'good' Orlanthi, instead of Kallyr?

> Lancelot betrays his lord by sleeping with his lord's wife, is
> responsible for the suicide of a woman who loved him dearly, and
> killed an innocent who refused to take arms up against him. And
> Modred is, of course, far far worse.
>
> These are classic literary heroes. Heracles killed his own wife and
> his brother's children. Odysseus' title in the Aeneid is Cruel
> Odysseus. Gilgamesh is a cruel tyrant who sleeps with the women in
> his city before their husbands are allowed to. And so on.

And what has this got to do with anything? I still wouldn't expect player heroes to be doing this sort of thing, or allying themselves with those who did.

> > You give the
> > impression that I'd be constantly going up against the other PCs
> > (because I'd be fighting against Kallyr to the bitter end, and they
> > apparently weren't), which would be tedious for me, them, and probably
> > you, too. Not much fun for any of us in that!
>
> But Kallyr offers your characters the best chance to throw the Lunars
> out of Sartar, at first through irregular warfare and later by
> "allying" with a True Dragon (which is a pretty horrific idea to most
> Heortlings given what the True Dragons did to their ancestors).

And, yet, I would still feel it my duty to oppose her. After all, why kick out the Lunars just to replace them with someone equally bad?

Lest you think I am kidding, or exaggerating, I have done this before in a game. I can tell you the story, if you'd like (though it's not Gloranthan).

>
> > > Does the idea that the Lunar army destroys tribe and
> > > clan, crucifies men, women and children by the hundreds and
thousands,
> > > or sells them into slavery bother you?
> > It would if I were playing Lunars that were expected to tolerate that
> > sort of thing, rather than trying to bring down those responsible,
> > absolutely!
>
> Such deeds are tolerated (and in some circumstances demanded) by the
> Red Emperor.

I don't care. Although I would agree that the Red Emperor is a pretty dubious sort of guy, and replacing him almost certainly would be a theme of any high level Lunar game I ran. Yes, this would be rebellion, and White Moonie-ism, and all the rest of it, but that's exactly the sort of theme that would be fun.

> That's why the Lunars use an awesome Chaos demon with an endless need
> to consume human souls (and flesh, but the souls bit is much more
> disturbing). But the fact that local communities (including in
> Sartar) sell out their own rather than be devoured by the Bat is
> pretty well-established.

I don't deny that some do, but Finding Another Way would be the theme I would use if I wanted to set up such a thing for the PCs.

> And the Crimson Bat is definitely blessed by the Emperor.

Again, I don't think the Emperor is a good guy, so that's not an issue for me.

> > > Does the idea that the ducks of the Upland Marsh may
> > > have cut a deal with an undead lich bother you?
> >
> > Depends what the deal is.
>
> No idea. But it can't be good for anyone who isn't a duck.

Still depends what it is. I don't demand perfection of my heroes, but there are limits, and tolerating the massacre of civilians is beyond those limits. What the ducks are doing may, or may not, also be beyond those limits, depending on what it is.

> > And why *should* I play a game
> > that I don't enjoy, regardless of how many literary antecedents it may
> > have?
>
> OK. That's why I say this is an aesthetic disagreement. But keep in
> mind, these are all heroes that have influenced Gloranthan writing.

Not in anything I've written/will write, they haven't ;) I don't even know who half of them *are*, and I know relatively little about the other half. I chose to be inspired by things that are inspiring, not things that repel me (unless I'm designing villains, of course), and my interpretations of the Gloranthan material that I've read so far don't generally give me any problems in running the kind of game that I enjoy.            

Powered by hypermail