From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest-Rules-Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest-Rules-Digest V1 #36 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest-Rules-Digest Wednesday, March 11 1998 Volume 01 : Number 036 RuneQuest is a trademark of Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS RE: [RQ-RULES] Stat Training Re: [RQ-RULES] Praxian missiles [RQ-RULES] Fwd: [RQ-Rules] RE: [RQ-RULES] Shaking the tree--correcting myself Re: [RQ-RULES] Shaking the tree- RE: [RQ-RULES] Shaking the tree RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 18:17:24 -0500 From: "Choinski, Burt" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Stat Training Andrew Barton [SMTP:AndrewBarton@compuserve.com] || I've been taking the racial maximum for other stats by the same formula as || is given for max POW in the Player's book, that is, take the minimum and || maximum possible rolls and add them together. || || The benefits are that the maximum is always about twice the average roll, || and that a race which rolls a stat on 2d6+6 has a higher max than one that || rolls on 3d6. Almost too much...the average "RQ3" dwarf with a CON of 1d6+12 would have a max of 31! I've decided to go with the "max roll + # of dice + 1 for every +3 of add (round up)". So dwarven max in this case would be 18+1+4, or 23. -- Burton - --------------------------------------------------------- Burton Choinski, Peritus Software Services Inc. bchoinski@peritus.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:43:12 -0800 (PST) From: allen wallace Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Praxian missiles ). Can war boomerands curve around obsticles ? Or can they be thrown past a foe to hit them from behind ? I'll bet the Australians will have beaten me to the punch on this one, but here goes anyway. I won't hazard a guess on damage, but a friend threw a heavy hunting boomerang his father brought back from a mining job and put a really serious dent in his fathers jeep, about 2 inches deep. Only the light bird hunting boomerangs return in my experience. The edged versions we made you don't want coming back. The actual flight path varies depending on shape. If you do it right with a heavy you get a long flat trajectory because the spin and aerodynamics counter the drop. The spin also tends to magnify the impact as the angular momentum is added to the flight momentum. Allen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 22:11:38 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: [RQ-RULES] Fwd: [RQ-Rules] From Terje Tollisen Subject: [RQ-RULES] I just signed up on this list today, so hi everybody. I`ve seen bits and pieces about RQ4 around on the net, but never found any real documentation. I know the next edition is supposed to be RuneQuest:Slayer or something, but what about RQ4? Is it just a testsystem that never made it to the marked, or is it a privat made thing? I would appriciate if someone could tell me what it is, if it`s any good, and where to get a copy. Thanks. - -Terry *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 07:40:53 -0600 From: "Hughes, Newton" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Shaking the tree--correcting myself correction to my own post: Chalana Arroy's runes are Fertility and Harmony. I had forgotten she had Fertility. Evidently I was taking too narrow a view of the Fertility rune below. Uleria's runes, according to GoG, are Fertility and Infinity (!). Where did I (and Bob) get the idea they were Fertility and Disorder? Where is the Uleria & the Boggles story published, in one of the TOTRM issues? Since obviously no one else around here cares enough about this thread to rtm me on this, I'll send this to acknowledge my own error and stop here. Newton > -----Original Message----- > From: Hughes, Newton [SMTP:NewtonH@hrblock.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 1998 3:19 PM > To: 'runequest-rules@mpgn.com' > Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Shaking the tree > > Maybe I can explain the rationale behind the published attribution of > runes > to Chalana Arroy and Uleria. Your own campaign is your business, of > course, > and I don't mean for you to take this as criticism of it, I'm just > pointing > out where what you've proposed differs from (my very possibly fallible > interpretation of) the 'orthodox' viewpoint. I hope the following makes > some sense to you, anyway. > > First off, in Gloranthan myth opposites don't necessarily cancel out > neatly > like you propose below. For instance, the most effective Chaos-fighters > are > Zorak Zoran and the Bull, both tied to Disorder, because their disorderly > natures make them better suited to weather their encounters with Chaos. > (This is a paraphrase of something Sandy Petersen said on the digest in > contrasting Glorantha and the Stormbringer world a long time ago.) > > The Fertility rune represents physical attraction the same way that the > Death rune represents separation of the body and spirit. The > complementary > pair is represented by the condition rune Law, which expresses the > immutability of the laws of physical attraction and death. Likewise, > Harmony represents bringing things together/cooperation, where Disorder > represents breaking things apart/strife. This pair is represented by > Mastery, which expresses knowing what to bring together and what to break > apart, or who to work with and who to oppose.* > > Uleria's relationship to her runes works a lot like Humakt's. Humakt owns > Death and is tied to Truth. The Truth rune tells you the Humakti approach > to death. There are other ways to approach death; Zorak Zorani approach > it > in a disorderly way rather than in a truthful one. > > Uleria owns Fertility and is tied to Disorder. Her approach to the rune > she > owns sows disorder; sometimes good things happen and sometimes bad things > happen, and it's totally unpredictable. Other goddesses might have > Fertility and Harmony, using physical attraction with the purpose of > bringing people together, but Uleria's not one of them. > > The emotion of love is no more essential to an Ulerian than hate is to a > Humakti. It may be cultural baggage, but it is not a necessity. As Greg > Stafford said, to worship Humakt you have to be willing to kill and > willing > to die, the rest is cultural. > > Chalana Arroy has nothing to do with the Fertility rune because it > represents physical attraction, and she is not a fertility goddess. (She > heals others because of compassion, not because she is attracted to them. > That would be sort of strange.) Her tie to the Harmony rune represents > her > interest in healing, inspiring cooperation, and discouraging fighting. > > I don't have a problem with the Harrana Illor myth, since her defeat of > the > demon of discord was not violent. It must not have been too complete a > victory either, considering the amount of discord in Glorantha. > > *The relationship between the condition runes and power runes is my own > speculation, I have no idea whether it is heretical or what. It was > posted > on the daily years ago, there was some minor quibbling about specifics but > there was no affirmation or denouncement handed down from on high. > (Unlike > you, brave soul, I did not dare to approach His Gregness directly with > it.) > I thought in this case it might help to clarify the definitions of the > runes > in question. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: stancliff@commnections.com [SMTP:stancliff@commnections.com] > > Sent: Sunday, March 08, 1998 12:51 PM > > To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com > > Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Shaking the tree > > > > Last month I sent a version of the following to Greg at Glorantha.com > > to see if he would reply... still waiting. > > When you ask yourself what Love really means, you first realize that > > there are many versions of the word (the Greeks had at least four words > > that we translate as love). Then you look at all of them and realize > > that they all have to do with that part of man that draws us together in > > sharing and caring for each other. Love helps us get along and makes us > > unified. It gives us Harmony! > > Fertility, on the other hand, is the aspect of Life and Nature that > > deals with growth and regrowth, birth and rebirth. It regenerates and > > resurrects. > > For this reason, IMC, I have swapped the runes for Uleria and Chalana > > Arroy. What are the results that stem from this decision? > > In the legend of the Boggles it is said that Uleria was the only one > > who could wed the Boggles without being damaged; this is because she > > used here power of Harmony to neutralize the Boggle's power of Disorder. > > They canceled out. > > Chalana Arroy is sworn to pacifism, and will not cause harm. This is > > because Fertility opposes Death and cannot embrace or tolerate it's > > practices. > > In the myth of Harrana Illor, the first harp, she uses her Harmony to > > destroy the demon of discord. This is obviously a name confusion. > > Harrana Illor was the predecessor of Chalana Arroy, and a healing > > goddess wouldn't act in this way. It must be Uleria, goddess of Love > > and Harmony who defeats the demon. > > > > Bob (Stancliff@Commnections.Com) (http:\\commnections.com\upgrades) > > PS: my web page is primitive and incomplete, I just don't have enough > time > > for > > it. > > > > > > > ************************************************************************** > > * > > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > > line > > 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 15:13:03 +0100 (MET) From: ferro@clipper.ens.fr (Frederic Ferro) Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Shaking the tree- Newton Hugues wrote : >Uleria's runes, according to GoG, are Fertility and Infinity (!). Where did >I (and Bob) get the idea they were Fertility and Disorder? Uleria's High Holy Day is Godday, Disorder Week, Sea Season, so your proposition is interesting (or too "God-Learner" ?) >Where is the >Uleria & the Boggles story published, in one of the TOTRM issues? Wyrm's Footprints. This discussion should move to the Glorantha-Digest. Or we could discuss the use of Power and Condition Runes in play (Power-Rune "quasi-elementals" ?). :) Frederic Ferro - -- mailto:ferro@clipper.ens.fr http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/1054 http://www.eleves.ens.fr:8080/home/ferro/index.html "The dawn is my Assyria; the sun-set and moon-rise my Paphos, and unimaginable realms of Faerie; broad noon shall be my England of the senses & understanding; the night shall be my Germany of mystic philosophy and dreams."-- Emerson *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:17:06 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Shaking the tree Ahh, so there is rebuttal on the web. My knowledge of runic associations comes from 'Gods of Glorantha' and my definitions of the powers of the runes comes from RQ2 and RQ3. I believe, and can usually demonstrate, that the powers of a god are Directly associated with the rune(s) they are assigned. That is the reason I proposed this change. I am not forcing it on anyone, I just use it in my game. These are my beliefs. RU>Maybe I can explain the rationale behind the published attribution of runes RU>to Chalana Arroy and Uleria. ... I'm just pointing RU>out where what you've proposed differs from (my very possibly fallible RU>interpretation of) the 'orthodox' viewpoint. RU>First off, in Gloranthan myth opposites don't necessarily cancel out neatly If their powers are not in direct opposition, then they would not be opposites, would they? This is a fundamental assumption and can't be thrown away, though the powers don't have to cancel out equally or precisely. RU>For instance, the most effective Chaos-fighters are RU>Zorak Zoran and the Bull, both tied to Disorder, because their disorderly RU>natures make them better suited to weather their encounters with Chaos. Thinking that Disorder is in some way related to Chaos is a big mistake. Disorder exists within and under Law, while Chaos is anti-Law. Disorder fights Chaos well because it is the nature and source of extreme violence which Harmony abhors. Storm Bull actually uses Bestiality as much or more than Disorder. RU>The Fertility rune represents physical attraction the same way that the RU>Death rune represents separation of the body and spirit. The Fertility rune is stated in the texts to be the 'Cup of Life' brimming over with the power and essence of life and growth. Death is the termination of life, the final destination of the energies that stemmed from Fertility. It separates body from spirit because, within the world, only the body can die, never the Spirit. RU>The complementary pair is represented by the condition rune Law, which RU>expresses the immutability of the laws of physical attraction and death. RU>Likewise, Harmony represents bringing things together/cooperation, where RU>Disorder represents breaking things apart/strife. This pair is represented by RU>Mastery, which expresses knowing what to bring together and what to break RU>apart, or who to work with and who to oppose.* I won't try to discuss your condition rune assignments, nor am I compelled to accept them. I think you are trying to give new meaning to runes that have a vague or weak definition in the texts. The pocket universe of Glorantha, represented by the Spike is the quintessential statement of the Law rune. It contains all of the Celestial Court including the elements and the Young Gods. It forms the ultimate opposition pair with Chaos, which includes everything outside Glorantha that is trying to get in and destroy existence. Chaos also includes an array of runes, a Pandora's Box of woes, plagues, hardships, and turmoils. These are not as clearly laid out or defined because Chaos cannot be organized, methodical, or united. Those are aspects of Law. RU>Uleria's relationship to her runes works a lot like Humakt's. Humakt owns RU>Death and is tied to Truth. The Truth rune tells you the Humakti approach RU>to death. There are other ways to approach death; Zorak Zorani approach it RU>in a disorderly way rather than in a truthful one. RU>Uleria owns Fertility and is tied to Disorder. Her approach to the rune she RU>owns sows disorder; sometimes good things happen and sometimes bad things RU>happen, and it's totally unpredictable. Other goddesses might have RU>Fertility and Harmony, using physical attraction with the purpose of RU>bringing people together, but Uleria's not one of them. This is a good argument for Humakt, Zorak Zoran, and Storm Bull. It applies to many of the gods, but not Uleria, because her runes are Infinity and Fertility in the texts. She should own Fertility and be tied to Infinity. This should mean that she is the wellspring of ALL powers derived from Fertility... it just ain't so, she hardly has any. Her special divine magic is one cooperation spell (Harmony), one pleasure spell (Harmony), and one breeding spell (Fertility). Her primary skill is a pleasure skill (Harmony). RU>The emotion of love is no more essential to an Ulerian than hate is to a RU>Humakti. It may be cultural baggage, but it is not a necessity. As Greg RU>Stafford said, to worship Humakt you have to be willing to kill and willing RU>to die, the rest is cultural. I can show you a Uleria writeup that got published that stresses that the only purpose of Uleria is to spread love and understanding. ''Gods of Glorantha does the same thing... where is your source? RU>Chalana Arroy has nothing to do with the Fertility rune because it RU>represents physical attraction, and she is not a fertility goddess. I don't think the rule books support this claim. If you compare the descriptions of the Fertility rune to the nature of her spells it is clear that her primary powers stem from Fertility and her secondary powers stem from Harmony. RU>(She heals others because of compassion, not because she is attracted to them. RU>That would be sort of strange.) Her tie to the Harmony rune represents her RU>interest in healing, inspiring cooperation, and discouraging fighting. Sorry, but defining Fertility as 'attraction' is a crock. Ernalda and the Grain goddesses express their tie to Fertility by their bounty and life-giving. Chalana Arroy is a compassionate goddess because her overflowing life force makes her sympathetic for those who are weak or injured. She heals them to draw them farther from Death and renew their ties to life. She inspires cooperation because Harmony is her lesser runic tie. RU>I don't have a problem with the Harrana Illor myth, since her defeat of the RU>demon of discord was not violent. It must not have been too complete a RU>victory either, considering the amount of discord in Glorantha. The histories state that Genertela is far more violent than Pamaltela because Genert died in the Chaos wars and could not continue to promote cooperation and law. I included the Harrana Illor myth to show that my interpretation did create problems, but that they were not as big as not making the switch. RU>*The relationship between the condition runes and power runes is my own RU>speculation, I have no idea whether it is heretical or what. It was posted RU>on the daily years ago, there was some minor quibbling about specifics but RU>there was no affirmation or denouncement handed down from on high. (Unlike RU>you, brave soul, I did not dare to approach His Gregness directly with it.) RU>I thought in this case it might help to clarify the definitions of the runes RU>in question. I don't feel that your linking of conditions to powers is necessary, but no one has argued because no one had a strong counter position. I do have my own opinions about those runes, but only a few are well formed. I hope that in defending my views I have not been too antagonistic. I have tried to be concise, but had to include your full text to address each point fully. I sent the idea to Greg to see if he would speak in support of my logic or stand on the text as is. It would be a great disruption if he Gregged something so long established, but the chance exists, especially with the new game just about to go to press. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest-Rules-Digest V1 #36 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.