From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #64 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Tuesday, April 14 1998 Volume 01 : Number 064 RuneQuest is a trademark of Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] Anyone doin' enchantments in their game?? RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Anyone doin' enchantments in their RE: [RQ-RULES] Anyone doin' enchantments in their game Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Anyone doin' enchantments in th RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Anyone doin' enchantments in th RE: [RQ-RULES] Anyone doin' enchantments in their RE: [RQ-RULES] Anyone doin' enchantments in their game RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Anyone doin' enchantments in th RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Anyone doin' enchantments in th [RQ-RULES] [Re] "Relic" Enchantments Re: [RQ-RULES] Anyone doin' enchantments in their game?? RE: [RQ-RULES] Anyone doin' enchantments in their [RQ-RULES] Anyone doin' enchantments in their game?? Re: [RQ-RULES] House Sorcery Rules, DIY Enchantments RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:21:35 +0100 From: "Terje Tollisen" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Anyone doin' enchantments in their game?? One of my players character have made a binding enchantment for a gnome, an earth element. This is a good way to boost the fighting power of the group. But if I want to exclude this power in a fught, it`s easy for me as the GM to make shure a fight takesplace on solid rock, inside a building etc. - -Terry *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 08:57:10 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Anyone doin' enchantments in their >a 2 POW ghost bind with a 12 Int ghost can give you a self >casting Protection 6 and Bladesharp 6, usable at least once per day. Hang on, you need to cast Control first, let the ghost out, get it to cast Visibility on itself, then it can cast its spells on you, then get back in the enchantment. Not very quick, and the Vis eats into the MPs. I'd say a bound Magic Spirit or Spell Spirit could do this without the visibility or being released, because casting spells is their primary function, and they are good at it. Ghosts are primarily spirit combatters, not spell casting slaves. They get very annoyed, too. Don't EVER let it get free, and hope nobody else casts Control on it while it's out. philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk or phibbs@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/phibbs A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths, a statistic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:42:37 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Anyone doin' enchantments in their game >Unless the character comes from a Spirit Magic background, it is >highly difficult to get the needed Spirit spells to do it yourself Most temples teach them. They might ask as a price that the initiate creates one enchantment for the temple at some point. philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk or phibbs@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/phibbs A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths, a statistic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 07:34:30 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Anyone doin' enchantments in th RU>A better use of the POW, IMO, is the strengthening enchantment to the RU>general hit points. This increases, proportiantly, the hit points in RU>all locations. A problem may arise at some point where it would take to RU>many mp to heel a location to positive, so it is usable once more, but RU>this is very rare. RU>Leon Kirshtein I tend to prioritize in this fashion... The first thing a newbies need is enough MP sources to cast all of their known spells without using any personal MP's. Next, they need a couple of spell casting spirits like Magic Spirits and Ghosts. During this time they are also finding a few spell matrices for one and two point spells. Once they have their offensive ability up they can worry about Strengthening Enchants to increase survival ability. Once their hit points are over 20 it is good to get some Armor points on the head and torso, as you suggest, to get a couple of more ghosts, and to get a special spirit like an elemental. By the time the characters are reaching this level they better be putting user conditions on their binds, because nasty shamans are going to try controlling their spirits and having them attack their owners. An organized player will have raised their MP storage as their ghost count increases and they will make sure that each ghost has contact with several points of storage. A smart player will have also found the Control Ghost spell so that they can command a ghost to attack or defend for several rounds and then return to the bind. At this level, careful use of Counter Magic and Spirit Screen are important for tactics. Bob Stancliff (Stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 07:48:04 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Anyone doin' enchantments in th RU>Hang on, you need to cast Control first, let the ghost out, get it to RU>cast Visibility on itself, then it can cast its spells on you, then get RU>back in the enchantment. Not very quick, and the Vis eats into the MPs. ... RU>function, and they are good at it. Ghosts are primarily spirit RU>combatters, not spell casting slaves. They get very annoyed, too. Don't RU>EVER let it get free, and hope nobody else casts Control on it while RU>it's out. If you are in contact with the bind, then you can command the ghost or other spirit, cast spells on it, or have it cast spells on you. The Visibility is not required nor is it necessary to leave the bind. The Binding Enchantment includes a coercion to force the bound spirit to obey any command that does not require leaving the bind. It can also force a simple action outside the bind, but the ghost or spirit cannot be told to return by this manner, it will be free to leave. To force a ghost to leave the bind, perform actions and return, it is necessary to use some form of control/command/dominate spell when it is commanded. Bob Stancliff (Stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 07:53:56 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Anyone doin' enchantments in their RU>>Unless the character comes from a Spirit Magic background, it is RU>>highly difficult to get the needed Spirit spells to do it yourself RU>Most temples teach them. They might ask as a price that the initiate RU>creates one enchantment for the temple at some point. Sorry Phillip, only Aldrya teaches these Spirit spells to Initiates (maybe some troll cults teach a few). Cults teach the Divine form of the ritual spells; they are one-use for Initiates and require POW to learn. A player character needs the Spirit versions only taught by shamen. Bob Stancliff (Stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 13:59:44 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Anyone doin' enchantments in their game >With this many ghosts casting spells, they have Bladesharp >and Protection from 5 to 8. This is ferocious abuse of the game system, the game world, and most of all, the ghosts. Whose ghosts are they? Have their descendants ever tried to find out where they are (divination), and release them? They are really lucky to find ghosts with all the best support combat spells. Personally, I'd rule that a ghost is stuck with the spells that it had when it was alive, and *may* be able to use its remaining free INT to learn new spells. In any case, I wouldn't let a player force a ghost to forget all its spells, any more than they could make it churn out enchantments with its own POW. philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk or phibbs@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/phibbs A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths, a statistic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:27:02 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Anyone doin' enchantments in th >If you are in contact with the bind, then you can command the ghost >or other spirit, cast spells on it, or have it cast spells on you. Are you sure about this, ie. is it in the rules that *any* spirit capable of casting spells can cast them from within an enchantment? philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk or phibbs@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/phibbs A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths, a statistic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:27:02 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Anyone doin' enchantments in th >If you are in contact with the bind, then you can command the ghost >or other spirit, cast spells on it, or have it cast spells on you. Are you sure about this, ie. is it in the rules that *any* spirit capable of casting spells can cast them from within an enchantment? philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk or phibbs@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/phibbs A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths, a statistic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:06:42 +0200 From: Alain.RAMEAU@total.com (Alain RAMEAU) Subject: [RQ-RULES] [Re] "Relic" Enchantments >Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 12:14:00 -0400 >From: Tal Meta >Subject: [RQ-RULES] "Relic" Enchantments > >At a recent con, I had the opportunity to play in an In Nomine game, >and >my Malachite of the Sword had a very useful "enchantment" on his >character sheet. (Note: I can't see the rules for this in the IN >rulebook, but it might exist in a supplement I don't own.) So here's >my >RQ-ized version of that enchantment, for your amusement... > >Relic >Enchantment >Rare May be a sword, with a Guided Teleportation spell matrix enchantment (the arrival place being tatooed in the hand), with some additional conditions, could do the same under RQ rules (but arriving in the hand instead) ? Alain. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:58:15 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Anyone doin' enchantments in their game?? W H Effingham wrote: > two enchantments for sylph bindings that the first sorceror wanted to start > out with, there haven't been any other enchantments made, my players find > (steal, plunder, whatever) other magic items and then trade them in the > cities with the extensive sorcerous circles for the items that would > actually want. Yes, sylphs were quite popular bound spirits in my campaign too, as I allowed the players to use them as emergency escape boats (ala Orvost in Strangers in Prax). However, as they began travelling the various alternate worlds, the usefulness of that mode to transport varied (and dried up completely when I began running my ToEE mod (big elemental vortex kept stealing their elementals if they let them out of their bindings)). > I think that only a few places in Glorantha have all three magic systems > available. In other worlds - who knows, but certainly its more than > possible. Sorcery, either under RQIII or Sandy, is unneccessary for > beginning characters IMO. I had good results with it. My only advice would be make the sorcerer PC stick with what he rolls for characteristics, and not let him move things around (big mistake... BIG!!! ). > Talking about purchasing magic, and magic items, how do people play > Ressurections in civilized lands? I normally allow my players to petition > the Church for one of their Healer initiates to ressurect them if need be, > but its a risky buisness costing about 5000 pennies (almost 5 years wages! A > fortune for my players!) and without definite success. The only time resurrection came up as a reasonable proposition in my game, the elven priest was assassinated right in the halls of the Senate building of the local Empire he was negotiating resettlement rights with (he was also the ambassador). So he got his for next to nothing. Every other time they were too far off in the wilderness, or being chased by the local authorities. :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:33:56 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Anyone doin' enchantments in their RU>This is ferocious abuse of the game system, the game world, and most of RU>all, the ghosts. Whose ghosts are they? Have their descendants ever RU>tried to find out where they are (divination), and release them? This is perfectly within the rules. While there could be a problem with descendants trying to free their ancestors, only Daka Fal teaches that this is important. Most barbarian and civilized cultures couldn't care less, so the chances of the ghost having a Dake Fal descendant is slim and varies by region. If someone came and proved ancestry of their bound ghost, they would make a deal and trade or release it. RU>They are really lucky to find ghosts with all the best support combat spells. RU>Personally, I'd rule that a ghost is stuck with the spells that it had RU>when it was alive, and *may* be able to use its remaining free INT to RU>learn new spells. In any case, I wouldn't let a player force a ghost to RU>forget all its spells, any more than they could make it churn out RU>enchantments with its own POW. A ghost is just as capable of forgetting a spell as a player character is, it can fight a Spell spirit and it can learn new spells. Daka Fal even allows you to directly give the ghost new spells and POW to make it stronger. Besides, most ghosts only come with 0 to 2 spells and have a lot of free INT to be filled. About that last part, have you read Shadows on the Borderland or Strangers in Prax? In Strangers in Prax, Captain Barran has ghosts that have sacrificed for his cult's divine magic, I tend to doubt that they were summoned with just those spells. In Shadows on the Borderlands, the Thanatar temple on the way to finding Muria has a bound ghost that is REQUIRED to enchant anyone who meets the user criteria. The rules support the argument that the coercive force of a Binding Enchantment is pretty complete. These tactics are a part of the game system, whether you feel they are balanced or not. Even if a character chooses not to consort with ghosts for personal or religious reasons, you can get all of the same results with Magic Spirits, they are just a little weaker. Bob Stancliff (Stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:43:03 -0400 From: Andrew Barton Subject: [RQ-RULES] Anyone doin' enchantments in their game?? I run a Byzantine sorceror in an RQ3 campaign set in Dark Age Europe. He gained much of his early strength by building up Enchant and Ceremony to reasonable levels and making magic items of his own -almost all of them being one-point spell matrices to increase the number of spells he could cast without using free INT. His skill also stood him in good stead when he reached Adept status and came to create a familiar. His high skill level meant that my GM allowed me to have him attempt a somewhat unusual familiar, and when I got a critical on the roll to create it, my character gained a very useful ally ... That character has a Summon skill of zero. He has never studied it, if he needs summoning done, he hires it. Failing any other currency, he can always trade the results of his own enchantments. In my view, many types of characters, not just sorcerors, can benefit by making their own items. A point of POW spent on an enchantment can be much more flexible and useful than a divine spell. GMs wanting to encourage this sort of thing should keep the campaign low-power in terms of the amount of magic obtained as loot during adventuring. I also use ceremony/enchant/summon skills to represent player knowledge about how enchantments work, and about the kinds of otherworld creatures that can be summoned. Andrew *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 20:39:03 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] House Sorcery Rules, DIY Enchantments stancliff@commnections.com wrote: > > I can't help but feel that there are people who want a different > magic system for every school of sorcery, not just types of magic. I don't necessarily want different magic systems, but I would like enough variety to make the different schools FEEL different, within the same framework. > It isn't necessary or desirable for sorcery to do everything that > Spirit and Divine magic can do. That is why RQ3 never gave sorcery a > Protection or armor boosting spell. Such a spell used in combination > with manipulation will unbalance the game in direct proportion to it's > accessibility. Well, it did have Armoring Enchantments like everyone else. > While I have no desire to give up Duration for Presence, I have fewer > complaints with the rest of Sandy's rules than I used to. There are > some good ideas there for expanding RQ3 and fixing some real problems > with evening out the progression of abilities from student to magus. Everyone is entitled to their own take. I'm personally moving towards having the option to maintain spells via presence or let them last only 10 minutes. > No newbie is capable of making magic items, they can only decide that > they want to train to do so. Most magic in Glorantha is inherited, > passed down, or captured. I initially allowed the players to buy > enchants and binds, but eventually I told them that the market had dried > up. The people who have magic are not willing to sell it because they > need it, and only so many people are willing to trade away their POW for > money. One method I used to incite my players was to give them plenty of enchantments early on, all of which had annoying user conditions that excluded THEM. It was an excellent way of saying "here's how he was screwing you over; can you do as well on your own? (It also spurred the sorcerer in the party into searching out the 'break enchantment' spell. > There is a very low return on investment for Armor Enchantment, a 2 > POW ghost bind with a 12 Int ghost can give you a self casting > Protection 6 and Bladesharp 6, usable at least once per day. If the > ghost has a higher POW than 12 and some MP storage is provided, you can > get two or three castings per day of each spell. This is far more > useful than a couple of AP added to one location. Your ghosts are alot nicer than the ones my group usually encountered. Even bound, I always had my ghosts threatening the most dire revenges if they should ever break free of their bindings. (Only "nice" ghost they ever met was unbound, and aided them strictly as an interpreter). Hibbs, Philip wrote: > Most temples teach them. They might ask as a price that the initiate > creates one enchantment for the temple at some point. I've been using this as a standard condition for learning enchantment spells IMC all along. (Of course, when it's your turn on the waiting list to actually get to use the matrix for Telepathy 20, you become more willing to contribute your time and POW...) > Are you sure about this, ie. is it in the rules that *any* spirit > capable of casting spells can cast them from within an enchantment? I'm not sure myself, but the only major differences between a ghost and a magic spirit are personality, initiatory spirit combat, and nomenclature. I seem to recall somebody (Leon?) ruling IHC that magic spirits are either ghosts who have forgotten themselves and are preparing to be reborn, or are proto-souls getting ready for reincarnation. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #64 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Avalon Hill Games. 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