From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #71 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Friday, April 17 1998 Volume 01 : Number 071 RuneQuest is a trademark of Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] Elementals RE: [RQ-RULES] Bound Spirit [RQ-RULES] DMD - Vecna for RQ/Greyhawk Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Ghosts Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Ghosts [RQ-RULES] Re: The campaigns Re: [RQ-RULES] Elementals [RQ-RULES] RQ4 character sheets RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Ghosts Re: [RQ-RULES] The campaigns RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:29:38 PDT From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Elementals > >RU>I like this one, too. FMC, I may combine the two. :) > >OK, I want to be a shaman in your campaign. >Bob Stancliff So do I, but then I would like to play a shaman in any campaing. Leon Kirshtein ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:27:22 PDT From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Bound Spirit > >RU>>>Summon, and enchant spells do not take up int in RQ3. >RU>>Eh? Yes they do, don't they say something like "1 point (memorisation >RU>>only)"? >RU>No >RU>Leon > They don't say it because all sorcery spells require 1 INT to >memorize. > > What the Magic Book says is: >PREFACE >pg 5 Each of the three approaches to magic has ritual spells which >must be used in conjunction with ritual proceedures. > >pg 10 Ritual Spell: ... These spells direct and define the ritual. > ... Ritual spells are learned in the same manner as other spells. > >SORCERY >pg 41 Memorizing Spells: ... Each memorized spell requires allocation >of one point of INT for that purpose. > >RITUAL MAGIC >pg 52 During a Summoning or Enchanting ritual the performer must also >use one of the ritual spells to define the direction and purpose of the >rite. > > ... An adventurer's knowledge of the ritual spells requires INT to >memorize. > > ... An adventurer learns ritual spells in the same manner that he >learns other types of spells. I think you are taking things out of context, but for the moment I yield until I reread the rules over the weekend. Leon Kirshtein ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:23:29 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: [RQ-RULES] DMD - Vecna for RQ/Greyhawk Fifth in my series of Greyhawk Gods for RQ... I realized while I was doing this one that for the purposes of a RQ campaign, Vecna is by far the best detailed cult, as well as the one with the most detailed mythology. If anything, I had to keep from saying TOO much. :) ** VECNA Runes: Magic, Darkness Known variously as The Whispered One, The Maimed Lord, and Master of Secrets, Vecna is one of the youngest of Oerth's divinities. Considered by some to still be a minor Hero Cult, the followers of Vecna, while few in number, have been active in the shadows for several years, slowly and quietly garnering more power for their Shadowed Lord. Trechery and deceit are second nature to Vecna, as are the secrets of magic. Vecna is most revered as the Patron of Black Secrets, especially magical ones. Cult in the World Vecna's faith exists in the shadows of other faiths, which is preciesly the way they want it. Followers of Vecna are expected to do exactly that: follow. Compassion is for the weak, and the weak only exist to provide sustenance for the strong. Lay Membership Requirements: Lay members of this faith are organized into a number of different orders, cast in a rigid heirarchy. Each of the various levels of this heirarchy are named for various body parts. Laymen are typically permitted to join only the orders of the Teeth, the Fingers or the Blood, depending on the skills the applicant has to offer. The Teeth are typically sorcerers attached to the cult (since no sacrifice of POW is required to remain a lay member, this level of sorcery in the cult is regarded as inferior to the upper orders), but the Teeth have the fastest track to further advancement in the cult if they so desire. The Fingers of Vecna are typically thieves, murderers, and informants, used by the cult to gather information and enforce edicts on non-cult members in ways that the more direct methods of the Blood are unnecessary or unwarraneted. The Blood of Vecna is comprised of mostly of more straightforward fighter-types, who serve the cult as bodyguards and general muscle. Lay members are not taught any skills by the cult; it is their function to BRING skills to the cult, not vice versa. If they want to learn deeper secrets, they must make a deeper commitment to Vecna's return (i.e. become initiates). Initiate Membership Requirements: Standard. Known as the Memories of Vecna, initiates strive to insure that Vecna's name is not forgotten by outsiders. They are trained in subtlety and magic, and used by their priests as spies upon outsiders and each other. What the lay orders cannot accomplish, the Memories are expected to do. Skills taught to initiates include Climb, Fast Talk, Speak Languages, various Lores, Read/Write Languages, Listen, Track, Hide, Sneak, Ceremony, Enchant, Summon, Intensity, Multispell, Range, Accuracy, Banish, Force, Hold, and Permanance. Note: Vecna does not possess the ability to provide his worshippers with spirit magics, only sorcery and divine magics. As initiates should already be journeyman sorcerers or better, they gain access to selected spells from their master's grimoires to study and learn for themselves. Acolyte Membership Requirements: Vecna's cult does not generally offer this level of specialization. As per priests, when available, but subservient in all ways to the Thought. Priesthood Requirements: Standard, plus the Initiate candidate must have successfully betrayed, blackmailed, or assassinated the priest whose role he wishes to fill. Virtues for Vecna include: Cruel, Deceitful, Destructive, Manipulative, and Vengeful. Common Divine Magic: all Special Divine Magic: Attack Soul, Create Liche, Dark Walk. Sorcery: Spells available vary between different temples. Common Vows include Abjure Day (3), Adulation (2), Celibacy (2), Devotion (2), Flee Sky, Lichedom, POW Gift, Rituals (3), Sacrifice APP, Shun Sky, Seclusion (2), Silence, and Tend Familiar. Associated Gods None. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:38:00 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Ghosts David Weihe wrote: > > What does this tactic have to do with power gaming? Why do you imagine > that Saxons made goblets of their enemies' heads, if not for the same > purpose? Likewise, voodoo priests seem to try the same thing. After all, > where better to find spirits than where one was just freed (from its corpse)? Heh. This is the sort of stuff I loved having my NPCs do; my group told me once that if I ever pitched a Ravenloft campaign, nobody'd vote for it (I took this as a compliment on my skill in being gruesome and scary when I needed to be). "Not even in death shall you know freedom from my wrath!" -- Final words of the high priest of Mabelrode, somewhere in the bowells of Oerth... > If my descendent traps me in a binding, I won't be very friendly for very > long! That *is* slavery, after all, hardly filial piety. Any commands > that brat gives will CERTAINLY be lawyered as much as possible the other > way. I keep trying to picture my three-year-old daughter binding *me* into something and trying to give me orders... it doesn't work now... :) > Again, how better to crush your enemies than to enslave them in the next > world, preventing them from going to the Happy Hunting Ground, TyKoraTek, > or wherever else? This is proper role playing. If there are no negative > consequences, however, *that* is bad *GMing*. Doing this to friends, > relatives, or ancestors is questionable behavior, at the least. Perhaps > limited to Vadeli, Thanatari, and madmen? "What is good?" "To crush your enemies, to drive their children before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women." Heh. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:45:16 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Ghosts allen wallace wrote: > > On the binding of ancestors... > I think it goes back to the old saw, sincerity and respect. If the > character mistreats or disrespects his ancestors, make him pay. If he > pisses off his party, don't talk them out of wasting him. Rewarding > unpleasant behavior ruins a game, not actively discouraging power gamers > is rewarding them. This can be reworked to apply to all spirits. As the Summoning fumble results state, there exist larger spirits of all types, the equivalent of the Lords and Kings of their spirit type. Might not one of these Lords come to pay a visit to someone who incessantly binds and mistreats his subjects, forcing concessions from them far in excess of what their binding morally entails? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 08:40:06 +0200 From: Nils Weinander Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: The campaigns Bob Stancliff: > > RU>> Several have even abstracted combat or gotten rid of dice to > RU>>create a much stronger story-telling atmosphere. > RU>I only believe that YAHQS has. I think most other just divide all skills by > RU>5 or 10. It reduces power level down to a reasonable level. > YAHQS abstracted combat to an absurd level, it basically counted how > many multiples of 100% you had. As the author of YAHQS I can only say that this is a gross over-generalization. Or perhaps rather that I have failed to convey the spirit of YAHQS. The Combat 1/100% is the basic guideline for converting from RQ to YAHQS, but it is not the end-all and be-all. With magic, Support points and Gambling, the straight RQ/YAHQS analogies fall. That said, YAHQS is an experiment, one which I use until I come up with something which works better for me. It is most certainly _not_ a perfect HeroQuest system. > Androgyous is or becomes a super hero, but Greg never says why. Androgeus is a powerful hero not because he has performed great heroics but because she is the pityful remains of an as yet unnamed great deity who has lost power after power through constant lousy luck. ______________________________________________________ Nils Weinander | Everything is dust in the wind nilsw@ibm.net | http://www.geocities.com/Paris/8689/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 03:22:50 EDT From: Delecti Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Elementals > Elemental recover HP each round, according to its size : 1HP/m3 > each round. > > Now, this is a very interesting and not overbalancing proposal. How about it recovers in it's own element, salamanders in fires, sylphs in windy areas, etc.? Delecti, Lord of the Upland Marsh aka Scott Knowles RL, USA Coordinator for The Chaos Society http://members.aol.com/delecti/UpMarsh.html Delecti@aol.com http://members.aol.com/Glorantha/chaossoc.html ChaosSociety@juno.com "What if life actually *was* fair, and we somehow deserved all the truly awful things that happened to us?" -- Marcus Cole, Babylon 5 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 98 11:11:04 +0200 From: blesa@irisgme.unizar.es (Fernando Blesa) Subject: [RQ-RULES] RQ4 character sheets >Did anyone ever make an RQ4 character sheet? Look at ftp://ftp.csua.berkeley.edu/pub/runequest/rq4 you'll find one there. At ftp://ftp.csua.berkeley.edu/pub/runequest/postscript/ there are several nice character sheets for RQ3. Fernando *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:34:37 +0100 From: "Terje Tollisen" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Ghosts Philip Hibbs wrote: > I see your point, it *can* be proper roleplaying, if roleplayed properly! I > just had an image of a player saying "Well, I've got 2 POW to spare, I'll > get the party shaman to summon me a ghost, and bind it". Does this mean you allow people to make enchantments with other peoples POW? So that a shaman can make enchantments without sacrificing power? That would lead to players tapping people for POW I think. Just capture a sucker, tell him he have to cooperate or die, and drain 5 point of POW form him. Maybe I misunderstood Philip here, but it is a question I have given some though anyway, and would like to know if people allow this in their games. I don not; not yet anyway. - -Terry *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:02:42 +0100 From: wal@eff.u-net.com (Nikk Effingham) Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] The campaigns Geez, go to bed for eight hours, wake up and find 44 messages from the Digest in my box : ) >RU>In Simons defense, this was not due to his House Rules, only due to the fact >RU>that he had played his game for a long time. After playing continously with >RU>a character for two years I managed to figure it that if I put my all into a >RU>combat situation I could get my attack upto about 600% doing a max >RU>unhealable damage of about 100. RQ characters of a long lived nature, >RU>especially those with access to sorcery (under any system) increase to quite >RU>powerful levels. > Giving away percents IS unbalancing because it bypasses the intended >limiting facet of the game, that is definitely a house rule. After two >years in my game the players are just making rune level. the best >attack is about 170% with spells and the best damage is about 6d6. Hmmm, as the specifics of the system are not described, I couldn't possibly comment. But when i tried a similar, unsuccessful, attempt at the same idea - - rewarding ideas and roleplaying instead of ticks (I've seen people change weapons constantly just to get the ticks) - there was a limit on the amount you could increase by. I would assume that a similar thing is in place here. The character who I was referring to in my game was supernaturally strong, had managed to lay his hands on a spirit that cast sorcery on him (Boost DEX and STR makes that Attack Modifier shoot through the roof ergo making experience easier to get on skills above 100% - but thats only Attack modifier, as if a Sword of Humakt would be intrested in anything else : ) Bladesharp 10 matrix, and had just made it to Sword. Of course, all of these had been gained through hard work (the spirit and matrix were in a sword I found on a HeroQuest). Getting to higher levels would, I assume, be more than feasible. Perhaps not so for humans, for their lower maximum stat levels makes Experience harder to earn, but certainly Elder Races (especially elves and trolls) would find it easier. >RU>Hmmm, to be honest, I've never been convinced that RuneQuest stops working >RU>at high levels. I don't really see that many probelems with it. HeroQuest is >RU>a different matter... > Duels at rune level fall into one of two categories, attack your >opponent's shield and weapon, or swing until the parry fails and you >crit. Is that a problem? While the first certainly is, attacking and destroying weaponary has been far easier than it should be, but when you have two rune lords then you either assume that you're going to have to wait for that special attack, and if you're a rune lord, lets assume with 100% attack and the ability to increase it by another 50%, then you've got 30% chance to special! That hit will come 1 in 3 times! You can always split your attacks, after all your foe can only parry one, and the other one will come straight through, unless he splits his parry - in which case the skill percentages are now so divided that it would just be like fighting as an initiate, except with two blows per round. Personally I stack a high Bladesharp with a Truesword and Beserk and roll on in waiting for the critical. Remember, your allied spirit can't heal you if your head isn't actually attatched to your neck stump... >RU>I hope mine isn't.. (plug plug...) > I don't think I have ever seen your web page or Hero quest rules. Come 'on Bob, you rewrote the format for one of my HeroQuests! > YAHQS abstracted combat to an absurd level, it basically counted how >many multiples of 100% you had. I have seen another system that said to >improvise the results as you go, and don't bog things down with dice. YAHQS is not RQ and that is a bit of a simplification. I think that YAHQS needs some number crunching and playtesting, but is quite workable. I would be intrested in seeing the other system you mention, is it available on the net? And with that, has anyone ever seen a copy of Mike Dawson's HeroQuest rules???? I do know that he once, long ago, sent a copy to Greg. >RU>I did both. In Glorantha I think there are lots of powerful deadly Heroes >RU>and Monsters (see Dorastor) but I think that EVERYONE uses HeroQuests. Check >RU>out Simon Phipps rules, this shows how HeroQuests might be used without >RU>entering the exceedingly deadly GodPlane and getting killed. > Most of the creatures in Dorastor can be killed by a few Rune Lords. >I am far more bothered when a character can kill the Terrors listed in >Elder Secrets. They are intended to be beyond the power of any mortal. Yes certainly, the beasties in Dorastor can be killed. As could Ralzakark (IF you could convince him to get into a one-on-one fight with you, and thats why Ralzakark is alive today...). The Terrors in Elder Secrets? I think the Crimson Bat and Mother of Monsters would be unkillable (common thing in our group used to be, when the GM was dealing with someone else, to postulate how to kill the Bat using whatever bizarre methods you wanted), but everything else just needs to take enough damage. You cant kill the Bat because of its enormous collection of vaired attack forms that manage to defeat any and all plans you might come up with to kill it, and the Mother of Monsters is a Mountain. WARNING NUMERICAL EXAMPLE AHEAD!!! Lets look at Cacodemon. First of all, he's killable by a group of well armed well prepared Rune Levels. Lets say your average part lord has a broadsword that inflicts 18 damage on a critical, lets say using Strength or Boost STR spells you can get your damage bonus to 2d6. Lets say you have a bladesharp 6 and a truesword. SO, before we even consider mauls with Crush, axes with Slash, Humakti blessings on weapons or higher STRs etc... we have a weapon inflicting an average of 55 dmg on a critical. Cacodemon, on average, blocks a critical with on;y 11% chance. Two criticals at 55 dmg to a location will cripple him. So, to kill Cacodemon you need, on average, to land only two criticals and stay alive long enough to do it. Now if your players can kill a demigodling (even if it is only a manifestation) at the start of Rune Lord Level, then it is conceivable that once they move into even more power, such as higher bladesharps, more rune magic, special abilites etc... that they could kill ANYTHING. If they put their minds to it. And used a lot of cunning. As one of my players who has a just-about-to-turn-adept character realized, if you get the drop on something in RuneQuest it's as good as dead. >RU>I don;t think that Rune Mastery is such a big issue any more. Lotz of >RU>systems ignore it. > Some legends in King of Sartar demonstrate Rune Mastery, but it is >extremely rare. I think Greg was moving away from talking about Runes etc... personally I like them. >RU>I doubt that Superhero should be applied as embodying an entire culture. >RU>Harrek is more of a loner, Jar-Eel isn't, Arkat defintely wasn't and >RU>Andrgoenous... well... I think that Superhero is just a Hero with the >RU>Infinity Rune. > You just came back to the issue of Rune Mastery. Arkat is probably a >super hero and Androgyous is definitely given that label, but King of >Sartar only gave him/her a couple of paragraphs and no background. Yes! I believe in Rune Mastery! According to Sandy the post-Time Superheros are Arkat, Elamale, Jar-Eel, Harrek and Androgenous (if I remember correctly). Pre time would be Tada etc... >The Red Emperor, as the Red Goddess's son, is the super hero of the >Lunar Empire. >Jar Eel could become a super hero, but she is overshadowed by her >'father', the emperor. IIRC Dragon Pass states that it is Jar-Eel and not the Red Emperor who is a Superhero. I think that the Red Emperors place is as a figurehead for the Empire and not a motivating, social force like Jar-Eel is. >Crag Spider could be a super hero if she could unite the trolls, she >only has a cult following. CragSpider is a demigod, which I feel is substantially different from a Superhero, as if you get to Hero and choose to either become a Superhero or try and ascend into Godhood. >The Unhuman King rules a small but powerful fading race. >Ralzakark rules the broos of Dorastor, and Dorastor itself by extension. But who is Ralzakark? Which one is he? Are they all Ralzakark? >Androgyous is or becomes a super hero, but Greg never says why. Was a God, but fell from grace. She is hated by all the peoples of the world for everyone knows he isn't trustworthy. >Argrath starts the hero wars as hero of Sartar, but eventually unites >many nations and becomes a super hero. I could be convinced that Argrath achieves Superherodom. But I would be more inclined to believe that he Ascended to Godhood instead. >While I am willing to let my players accompany these people, I am not >willing to let them replace these people. This raises two points. Firstly, killing them is hard. But you have to give a reason. If they can be given stats, which they certainly can for we know that mere mortals have slain people like the Red Emperor. If they have stats, and your players have the ability to slay them, (not replace) then I - - as a GM - would have to admit that they could. So IMO the idea is to make the stats fit the character. Why can't you kill Jar-Eel? Because even if you slay her she turns up, alive and fit in the Fertility Rites of Pelanda, or the Red Emperor goes and demands her soul back, or she returns with the Full Moon Corps. And she'll be pissed. And make sure that the PCs who did this to her suffer, and never return. Why can't you kill Harrek? Because if you do then when he gets to Hell he clonks the Incarnation of Humakt on the head, knees him between the legs and high tails it back to the Surface World. Equally pissed as hell. After all, he IS a Superhero. So making these people stay dead is what is difficult, not the actual act of Killing. Everybody probably told the trollkin he didn't stand a chance against Ruric Runespear and look what happened to him.... : ) Using HeroQuests however, you can ensure these people stay dead. Stick them in Lunar Hell, feed them to the Black Eater, imprison them in Adamant, anything! Secondly, replacing them is not what is at issue here. How do you replace Jar-Eel? Become the leader of the Red Army. And why shouldn't a player be able to achieve that, and let his decade old PC retire as the General of the Lunar Empire? SOMEBODY has got to do it. Replacing the Red Emperor would be, basically, impossible. The problem with PCs is that they are normally headstrong individuals, who would be unable to convince an entire nation they were the right men for the job. I could see that PCs could rule Dukedoms, and small nations. But I know of no-one who would like to displace the Red Emperor, although I do know some people who wouldn't mind becoming members of his bodyguard. Then again, I have a character whose only dream is to buy a large tree, build a tree house bar and run it and wile out hs days there. Sorry about the length of the post guys! All IMHO Nikk # Nikk Effingham http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/7556/ "If absolute power corrupts absolutely, where does that leave God?" -- George Daacon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #71 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Avalon Hill Games. 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