From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #87 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Monday, April 27 1998 Volume 01 : Number 087 RuneQuest is a trademark of Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] Lerning spells Re: [RQ-RULES] Lerning spells Re: [RQ-RULES] Lerning spells RE: [RQ-RULES] Lerning spells Re: [RQ-RULES] Lerning spells Re: [RQ-RULES] Lerning spells RE: [RQ-RULES] Lerning spells RE: [RQ-RULES] Lerning spells RE: [RQ-RULES] Lerning spells [RQ-RULES] Hello all RE: [RQ-RULES] Learning spells Re: [RQ-RULES] Just for the Experince Re: [RQ-RULES] MPME & Crystals Re: [RQ-RULES] Hello all Re: [RQ-RULES] Spirit Combat & Sandy's Shamans RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:56:22 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Lerning spells RU>Bob said RU>> This is a very harsh rule that you are only using to make the game RU>> slower and harder. If the players are doing their own summoning, then RU>> they are fighting it from full power, so there is no problem. If a RU>> non-player shaman finds a spirit on the spirit plane, he can wait until RU>> it is full power again if he wishes, so there is no problem. This rule RU>> seems to be to stop player shamen from helping their friends, which is RU>> what friends are for, so why stop it? Or why allow player shamen? RU>I allow player shamen becouse my players enjoy it:-) RU>But I don`t see why you say it is harsh and slows things down. It a RU>shaman has 50 POW fetch, he gan without risk capture a 10 point spell RU>spirit, reduse it to 0 MP, and let it attack himslef or a friend as RU>soon as it gets 1 MP. I think that`s just too easy. RU>-Terry Tollisen It is a question of intent and reward. If a player works hard to qualify as a shaman and you can justify keeping him in the game, then his purpose will be to train and aid his fellow villagers. If you say that the spirit has to be full strength for them to learn the spell and you also control the size of the spirit, then you are telling the players that you don't really want them to learn spells unless you can abuse them in the process. This will probably make them more cautious, but it will definitely slow down game play while they arrange extra protection to insure a reliable chance of victory. Some people seem to like this style of adding obstacles, I tend to consider it petty or harsh and detracting from the flow of the game. If a summoned spell spirit will attack the nearest being and fight to win, then the shaman is less likely to Discorporate to find a specific spell. It takes too long to get the spell you need by any random searching method, so summoning becomes the method of choice. The shaman simply has the student stand at the point where the spirit will appear so that he can fight it when it arrives. The spirit _will_ be full size and the rest of the argument goes away. Bob Stancliff (Stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:26:06 +0100 From: "Terje Tollisen" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Lerning spells > If a summoned spell spirit will attack the nearest being and fight to > win, then the shaman is less likely to Discorporate to find a specific > spell. It takes too long to get the spell you need by any random > searching method, so summoning becomes the method of choice. The shaman > simply has the student stand at the point where the spirit will appear > so that he can fight it when it arrives. The spirit _will_ be full size > and the rest of the argument goes away. Indeed it will. But this is not the onely way to get a spell sprit attack somebody. It can be stored in a bind or in a fetch, and used later on. (when it is _not_ full ) - -Terry Tollisen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:06:10 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Lerning spells RU>Indeed it will. But this is not the onely way to get a spell sprit RU>attack somebody. It can be stored in a bind or in a fetch, and used RU>later on. (when it is _not_ full ) RU>-Terry Tollisen OK Terry, you feel that this is a problem that can be fixed, I just feel that it is an obstacle to slow down the game. After all, the character is going to learn the spell either way, you haven't changed that. All that you have done is add a lot of die rolls and an occasional exorcism, which is no problem since the shaman is nearby. The only part of the game that actually changes is the cost of extra protection spells, exorcisms, and play time. I no longer even roll spirit combats after one side has exceeded the 70% success level, its already won. Bob Stancliff (Stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:01:12 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Lerning spells Bob: >Some people seem to like >this style of adding obstacles, I tend to consider it petty >or harsh and detracting from the flow of the game. Fine, if you want to run a game where the players can have whatever spirit magic they want, easily. If so, skip the rest of this posting. If you don't, however, then you make it more difficult, by ruling that the learning of the spell requires the student to defeat the spirit from full MPs to zero. The problem that then arises is that most roleplayers refuse to admit defeat, and will not settle for Bladesharp 6 when they want BS10. They then stock up on spirit combat magic, or try to find ways round the rules. However, letting them have unlimited spirit magic just because it is too dirsuptive to the game to enforce the game world rules is not my favourite option. Personally, I would feel quite justified in saying that an Orlanthi is fundamentally incapable of learning spirit magic from a Waha shaman, because the magic is fundamentally different, based on different myths and truths. One man's Slay Rat and another man's Attract Rhino's Attention are different spells, even though they both do 1d3 damage to a random location. Add to that the idea that the shaman is giving away tribal powers, which in the wrong hands could be used as the basis of a quest to weaken the cult and steal that power from them, and teaching spirit magic to foreigners, even friends, becomes a much less attractive prospect. If you want to restrict levels of magic available (and RQ has a much higher level of magic availabliity than any other RPG I can think of), then there are plenty of ways of doing it. If, however, your players get the hump and start being unreasonable, then you *could* just give in and make it easy to aid game flow. I have done on many occasions. philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk or phibbs@compuserve.com http://members.tripod.com/~PhilHibbs/ A single death is a tragedy a million deaths are a statistic Josef Stalin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:22:24 +0100 From: "Terje Tollisen" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Lerning spells > OK Terry, you feel that this is a problem that can be fixed, I just > feel that it is an obstacle to slow down the game. After all, the > character is going to learn the spell either way, you haven't changed > that. Yes I have. This is my way of limiting how big spells one can get. But it doesn`t seem we`ll agree on this, so lets just leave it at that (something I think you`ve tried to give me hint of):-) > I no longer even roll spirit combats after one side has exceeded > the 70% success level, its already won. Good idea. - -Terry Tollisen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:28:30 PDT From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Lerning spells I no longer even roll >spirit combats after one side has exceeded the 70% success level, its >already won. > I usually stop rolling if one side is 10 or more above. Leon Kirshtein ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:35:31 PDT From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Lerning spells >If you don't, however, then you make it more difficult, by ruling that the learning of the spell requires the student to defeat the spirit from full MPs to zero. The problem that then arises is that most roleplayers refuse to admit defeat, and will not settle for Bladesharp 6 when they want BS10. They then stock up on spirit combat magic, or try to find ways round the rules. However, letting them have unlimited spirit magic just because it is too dirsuptive to the game to enforce the game world rules is not my favourite option. A question if I may. How much are you charging your players for spirit spells? I have long ago abandoned the idea of using RQ3 prices for magic and switched to one similar to RQ2. IMW, spirit spells cost 500L per point cumilative, half price for cult members. So for example Bladesharp 6 is 500+1000+1500+2000+2500+3000 or 10,500L. Based on this most players generally walk around with 4pt spells, which are usually bought from their on cult. Leon Kirshtein ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:42:04 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Lerning spells >A question if I may. How much are you charging your players for >spirit spells? In the high-level game that I run, the characters have already stabilised with a set of spells that they like, so it doesn't come up, other than the shaman, who keeps changing his own spells. In my low level games, I use the standard costs for cult members, but learning any magic outside of your cult list is fantastically difficult. Matrixes are particularly valued. If someone played a shaman and just started dishing out spells, they would get some really nasty summons results (1 in 10, remember). Their ancestors would make sure of that. philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk or phibbs@compuserve.com http://members.tripod.com/~PhilHibbs/ A single death is a tragedy a million deaths are a statistic Josef Stalin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:55:24 +0100 From: "Terje Tollisen" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Lerning spells > A question if I may. How much are you charging your players for spirit > spells? I have long ago abandoned the idea of using RQ3 prices for > magic and switched to one similar to RQ2. IMW, spirit spells cost 500L > per point cumilative, half price for cult members. So for example > Bladesharp 6 is 500+1000+1500+2000+2500+3000 or 10,500L. Based on this > most players generally walk around with 4pt spells, which are usually > bought from their on cult. > > Leon Kirshtein > This is not a major issue, when you have a shaman in the party. Besides, if one follows the rules with bying spells form other shamen, the party has to stay and give comunity service for a long time. That`s not something my players care too much about, so they seldom do. However, when they do by magic, I tend to vary the prices from place to place, and depending on the situation. I guess I never go as low as RQ3 rules, and never as high as you. For a 6 pt. spell I would say 5000, and then start considering. I don`t like using set prices. Especially not on magic. - -Terry Tollisen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:58:57 -0400 From: Frederic Moulin Subject: [RQ-RULES] Hello all Greetings everybody, Just a quick note to say that I am happy to be back on the RQ-rule list....I somehow lost track of it just about a year ago. Thanks to philip hibbs for showing me back the server addresse. A small question here...does anybody know what happened to RED DEVASTATION, the wargame of Rob Smith and John Medway? Frederic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:20:32 PDT From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Learning spells >This is not a major issue, when you have a shaman in the party.< Even then the characters have a priest or a shaman in the party I still make them pay, at least the portion which must be donated to the cult, (50% of income for most priests). Leon Kirshtein ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:53:10 -0700 (PDT) From: jarold davis Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Just for the Experince >> I too have experienced the problem of players switching weapons in the >> middle >> of combat, to just get that check mark. I asked them not to rules lawyer > As Tal replied, my players didn't try that too often, since it pretty much left them wide open to become a shishkabob. And I did have a rules lawyer, just as an aside here, who made my life and everyone else's in the game rather difficult. I talked him into GMing a few adventures. He quit being a rules lawyer - for the most part :). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:32:14 -0700 (PDT) From: allen wallace Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] MPME & Crystals Philip, Does anyone actually enforce the rules like this? I know some people don't allow drawing of MPs into one's person, but I (and IMEx most) normally allow them to be used as spirit combat reserves. IMG I don't allow any reserves, even a Shaman can't shunt the MP loss from a spirit combat 'hit' to his fetch. Also as I have replaced the strike rank system in my game spirit combat happens faster than normal combat so it can be quite a bit more dangerous. Most spirit combats will be over before a hefty defense spell can be cast. Allen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:45:48 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Hello all Frederic Moulin wrote: > > Greetings everybody, > Just a quick note to say that I am happy to be back on the RQ-rule > list....I somehow lost track of it just about a year ago. You didn't lose track of it, Frederic, it went away! But it's back, now. (even if someone is appearantly trying to spoof all of mpgn.com today...) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:07:35 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Spirit Combat & Sandy's Shamans Hibbs, Philip wrote: > > According to the version of Sandy's shaman rules that I have: "The shaman > can draw MPs from the fetch to replace his own during spirit combat, unless > he is discorporate ... Has Sandy "opened up" distribution on his shaman rules, or are they still in beta testing? > Does anyone give POW gain rolls for succeeding in Spirit Combat, or for > resisting incoming spells? 'Cos the RQ3 rules don't say that you do, but > they do say that you get a POW gain for overcoming an enemy with offinsive > *magic spells*. I give POW gains for Spirit Combat. Not for resisting incoming spells, but if the combat was with a spirit that had at least a 50% chance of winning against the character, certainly. > If you want to restrict levels of magic available (and RQ has a much higher > level of magic availabliity than any other RPG I can think of), then there > are plenty of ways of doing it. If, however, your players get the hump and > start being unreasonable, then you *could* just give in and make it easy to > aid game flow. I have done on many occasions. I had more problems with players tanking up on sorcery than with spirit magic... the shaman in the party was happier with a passle of spirits than with big spirit spells (we were using my variant FreeINT for fetches rule). Divine magic was right out with this group ("Sacrifice a point of POW? Are you kidding?!?") *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #87 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.