From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #93 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Wednesday, May 6 1998 Volume 01 : Number 093 RuneQuest is a trademark of Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS [RQ-RULES] Magic types [RQ-RULES] Familiars [RQ-RULES] Familiars [RQ-RULES] User conditions Re: [RQ-RULES] User Conditions, Lost Mail, Magic Types [RQ-RULES] DMD - Llerg for RQ/Greyhawk [RQ-RULES] Renewing Divine Magic [RQ-RULES] Re: User Conditions RE: [RQ-RULES] Magic Types [RQ-RULES] Greyhawk Gods Re: [RQ-RULES] Renewing Divine Magic [RQ-RULES] Renewing Divine Magic RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 09:17:12 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] Magic types RU>spells from spirits, but where did they come from originally? How did the RU>spirits get the magic and how did it evolve? The others are easy, I just RU>cannot come to a logical conclusion for the spirit magic form. If anyone RU>can give me your pov's it would be appreciated.Thanks. The latest speculation in the RQ4 writeup was that spell spirits are a residual effect from major magics cast by the gods in god-time. I prefer to believe that spell spirits are the devolved offspring stemming from the runic sources. As each member of the celestial court fissioned their power to form offspring, or merged them with other gods, the number of spirits increased, their powers became more specific, and they had less power available (they were weaker than their ancestors). This process continued all through the god-time until there were legions of spirits decended from each of the runic sources. Some of these spirits are physical manifestations like elementals, others are purely magical like spell spirits. Because they are such distant decendants, they only have access to a single type of magic which relects itself as a spirit spell. Their stronger relatives (possibly parents) are the spirits that provide a single rune spell to shamen, and their ancestors are the young gods. It is clear in RQ3 that spell spirits give their knowledge to buy their freedom, then they return to the runic source to recharge their knowledge. The RQ4 rules tried to change this by saying that the spirit was absorbed and not released, I am more comfortable with the older explanation. Bob Stancliff (Stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:00:22 -0400 From: Andrew Barton Subject: [RQ-RULES] Familiars Someone asked about my Byzantine sorceror's critically successful enchanting of a familiar. His original plan was to have a wooden puppet made by a very skilled craftsman, bind a high-powered spirit into it and give it some of his own STR, CON, SIZ, DEX and APP. The puppet was to be carved in his own likeness. When he rolled a critical on the Create Familiar spells, the GM gave some bonuses to the resulting physical stats and allowed the familiar to look like his exact double (except for size). He now likes to use Enhance and Diminish SIZ spells to swap places from time to time with his own familiar. He's also built up useful skills in Puppetry and Sleight and can put on some pretty impressive stage magic shows. See a recent Books of Magic comic where a more experienced magician teaches the hero that even powerful magicians can benefit from the use of stage magic techniques, especially misdirection. Andrew *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:00:22 -0400 From: Andrew Barton Subject: [RQ-RULES] Familiars Someone asked about my Byzantine sorceror's critically successful enchanting of a familiar. His original plan was to have a wooden puppet made by a very skilled craftsman, bind a high-powered spirit into it and give it some of his own STR, CON, SIZ, DEX and APP. The puppet was to be carved in his own likeness. When he rolled a critical on the Create Familiar spells, the GM gave some bonuses to the resulting physical stats and allowed the familiar to look like his exact double (except for size). He now likes to use Enhance and Diminish SIZ spells to swap places from time to time with his own familiar. He's also built up useful skills in Puppetry and Sleight and can put on some pretty impressive stage magic shows. See a recent Books of Magic comic where a more experienced magician teaches the hero that even powerful magicians can benefit from the use of stage magic techniques, especially misdirection. Andrew *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:00:24 -0400 From: Andrew Barton Subject: [RQ-RULES] User conditions >> RU>"Me or my familiars" is pretty restrictive. > That IS restrictive, and also pretty rare since most people intend to > leave a legacy. A common restriction is to family or religion (or > sect). Then there are the people who intend to never die so they don't > worry about legacies. Other disadvantages of over-restrictive conditions: you can't sell or trade your stuff, nor lend it to friends. My Byzantine sorceror ended up with a condition along the lines of: me, my familiars, anyone I've freely and willingly lent the item to for so long as they comply with any conditions I made at the time of the loan, any legal buyer or inheritor of the item has the same rights as I do ... He's not a lawyer, or he'd have had less faith in the Byzantine legal code before Justinian's reforms. Andrew *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 18:33:01 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] User Conditions, Lost Mail, Magic Types Hibbs, Philip wrote: > > Would a family restriction allow a Broo "offspring" to use the item? I'd tend to think so... but for how many generations, I wonder? Michael A. Pastorello > > First off let me say I am not receiving all emails from the list. I get > answers to stuff going past that i never got the original post to. Do not > know if i should mention here, but am going to anyway. Your address isn't one of the ones I get bounces from, so I'm not sure exactly where they go. Several folks I know of do miss the occasional message, due to various problems, but I can only guess that the problem lies with their ISPs, as that's where they usually bounce back from. Several other folks just get mail greatly delayed; I'll get notices that so-and-so's server has refused a connection for the last 4 hours, and that the server will keep trying for 3-4 days. Not the answer you might have hoped for, but it's the best I've got. > I have another question as I am delving into the mysteries of magic in > Glorantha. Is just a quick I hope easy question. > My questions revolve around the spirit magic users. They gain their > spells from spirits, but where did they come from originally? How did the > spirits get the magic and how did it evolve? The others are easy, I just > cannot come to a logical conclusion for the spirit magic form. If anyone > can give me your pov's it would be appreciated.Thanks. I've always thought that spirit magic came first; it's the type of magic that spirits too weak to be called Gods give their worshippers. Once the spirits reach a certain threshold, they can begin offering more powerful divine level spells. They fill their "courts" with spirits much like they once were, and through them, continue to offer their supplicants the same "spirit" spells they always have. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 19:29:10 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: [RQ-RULES] DMD - Llerg for RQ/Greyhawk Twenty-fourth in my series of Greyhawk gods in RQ format... LLERG Runes: Disorder, Beast, Man Llerg is the God of Beasts and Strength. Cult in the World Llerg is seen by many as the secondary Suel god of berserkers, but he is also revered by those who seek the ferocity and strength of the wild beasts in combat. Where Kord's followers battle with the sword, Llerg's priests excell in the use of natural weapons, such as fists, claws, and teeth, It is said that Llerg's Initiates can actually become the beasts they seek to emulate, the bear, alligator, and snake. Lay Membership Requirements: Lay members of Llerg's cult are expected to excell in strength. They are expected to build their strength through exercise and diet, until they have reached their maximum. While they train, they are taught the following skills: Dodge, Swim, Animal Lore, First Aid, Martial Arts, Listen, Scan, Track, Sneak, Ceremony, Fist attack, Kick attack, Headbutt attack, and Grapple attack. Initiate Membership Requirements: Potential Initiates of Llerg must have increased their strength ot it's maximum value, as well as meet all other standard initiatory requirements. Initiates do not gain access to the various Transform divine spells. Spirit Magic: Armoring Enchantment (bear skins only), Coordination, Endurance, Heal, Ironhand, Mobility, Protection, Strength, Vigor. Acolyte Membership Requirements: as per Priests. In addition, potential acolytes must seek out and kill a bear in single combat with his choice of weapons. Acolytes receive Transform spells as one-use. Priesthood Requirements: Standard. Llerg's priests gain reuseable access to the various Transform spells. Priests enjoy a special blessing from Llerg; no natural animal, even one under a control or dominate spell, will attack a priest of Llerg. This protection is personal, and is dependant on the priest's actions; if he moves to attack, or hunts the creature, the protection is voided with regards to that creature. Virtues for Llerg include: Energetic, Honorable, Proud, Reckless, and Unpredictable. Common Divine Magic: all Special Divine Magic: Berserk, Transform Body (Alligator, Bear, Snake), Transform Head (Alligator, Bear, Snake), Transform Limbs (Alligator, Bear, Snake), Associated Gods Kord: provides Command Wolf *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 20:10:25 -0400 From: "James Bickmeyer" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Renewing Divine Magic I would like to know how other people handle renewal of divine magic. Currently I allow only the renewal of the magic that is accessible from that temple or shrine at the time of the renewal. However, I have been considering making it easier to renew divine magic that has already been sacrificed for, and would like to know what others have done and how well it works. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 20:09:16 -0400 From: "James Bickmeyer" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: User Conditions From: "Hibbs, Philip" >Would a family restriction allow a Broo "offspring" to use the item? Ouch! I don't think it will work with Broo, but it should with Scorpionmen . This leads me to a scenario hook. Heirloom of a super powered weapon with the condition that only those of the blood of "Old Coot" can use the sword. (sorry, no in-laws) The hero son inherits the weapon and goes chaos hunting. In a great battle with scorpionmen he is struck down, in a most foul manner (what else would you expect for scorpionmen). Only one or two of his followers survives to tell of the loss. Unknown to the survivors the hero is still alive and consumed alive. The new scorpionman is of the blood of "Old Coot". At some point he takes up the weapon and learns it secrets. Now the new descendants of "Old Coot" must find and retrieve the weapon. Off course the weapon is not idle. It is used in horrendous attacks on civilizations and it's mark is noted, making it a family honor to get it back. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 08:31:27 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Magic Types > I have another question as I am delving into the mysteries of magic in > Glorantha. Is just a quick I hope easy question. > How did the > spirits get the magic and how did it evolve? Why not ask the Glorantha list? Many of the esoterists are not on this list. philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk or phibbs@compuserve.com http://members.tripod.com/~PhilHibbs/ A single death is a tragedy a million deaths are a statistic Josef Stalin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:33:07 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Greyhawk Gods Tal, in Greyhawk, surely, to perform magic one has to study from an early age, and devote one's life to it. How do you justify almost entirely rewriting the game world rules in using the RuneQuest system with spirit magic intact? philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk or phibbs@compuserve.com http://members.tripod.com/~PhilHibbs/ A single death is a tragedy a million deaths are a statistic Josef Stalin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 07:04:05 PDT From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Renewing Divine Magic >I would like to know how other people handle renewal of divine magic. > >Currently I allow only the renewal of the magic that is accessible from that >temple >or shrine at the time of the renewal. However, I have been considering >making it easier to renew divine magic that has already been sacrificed >for, and would like to know what others have done and how well it works. > I have always been very leniant about renewing divine magic and have allowed players to repray inside a sanctified area. This allows characters to move about more freely and at the same time makes them pay more attention to some the less used Common Divine spells like Sanctify, Worship, and Warding. Leon Kirshtein ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:34:32 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] Renewing Divine Magic RU>I would like to know how other people handle renewal of divine magic. RU>Currently I allow only the renewal of the magic that is accessible from that RU>temple at the time of the renewal. However, I have been considering RU>making it easier to renew divine magic that has already been sacrificed RU>for, and would like to know what others have done and how well it works. My campaign is just reaching the level where Divine magic can have an effect. The characters have extensive spirit magic which IS powerful enough to change game balance, don't let anyone say otherwise. Divine magic rarely does this because there is so little available in comparison. Initiates only have a few one use spells which they hoard to increase their ties to their god in hopes of promotion. Priests rarely adventure, so you hardly ever see any except from the chaos leader you're attacking. Even priests resist using their spells because you have to go to a minor temple to get back special spells and a major temple to get back common spells. Once you get there you are supposed to spend days recharging them, so the process becomes a major expedition that has to be repeated semi-annually, unless, of course, you live just up the road from that major temple. This is not likely since most villages cannot do better than a shrine. It is necessary for a priest to use his spells to help initiates, but the more spells he has used, the greater his need for another pilgrimage that will keep him away from his job for two - six weeks. This is much worse in isolated areas like the Zola Fel valley where the only major temples are Ernalda, Yelmalio and Zola Fel. There are minor temples for most of the Lightbringers except Chalana Arroy, but people have to travel to Sartar for a major temple for those gods. Someone suggested recently that acolytes were a god learner creation or something, but they are actually essential to any cult that wants a presence at the village level operating a local shrine. The acolyte has to spend half of his time supporting himself and the other half working for the local initiates. The accolyte is not supposed to collect tithes (which is probably a mistake) so a priest has to make an annual circuit to do it for him and give him most of it as his temple support. The shrine is only able to restore one special spell plus Worship and maybe Sanctify (this rule was added after RQ3 came out and I don't think they added Spellteaching), so spell support is limited from these acolytes. The only intense casting of divine magic occurs during a war when rune levels are most likely to oppose each other. One of the side effects of having several hundreds or thousands of initiates marching around is that a mobile major temple can travel with them for the use of the priests. This will greatly increase the access to divine magic for everyone involved. Everything I have said so far was comment on the current rules. Your real question was whether we should change this. I have recently bought the available back issues for 'Tales of the Reaching Moon' and one of them described the concept of 'rune points' that are sacrificed for instead of specific spells. These are exchanged for any spell provided by the god to that type of character when the character wants to cast a divine spell. This adds a lot of flexability to divine magic and makes it far more likely that divine magic will be used. I like this rule, although I haven't brought it into my campaign yet. There is another interesting suggestion used by several people: to make initiate or higher divine magic recoverable once per year at the high holy day worship. Priests could still recover spells normally, but initiates would have annual spells instead of one-use spells. I think that either of these suggestions is a way to introduce more divine magic into games to get a better flavor of each gods magic. It would expand the types of magic that characters are exposed to and seems to be a good idea. Bob Stancliff (Stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) to: INT:runequest-rules@mpgn.com cc: INT:lackey@gator.net INT:afn50803@afn.org toobear *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #93 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Avalon Hill Games. 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