From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #109 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Monday, June 8 1998 Volume 01 : Number 109 RuneQuest is a trademark of Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] SuperRuneQuest [RQ-RULES] Webpage Update Re: [RQ-RULES] SuperRuneQuest [RQ-RULES] SuperRuneQuest Re: [RQ-RULES] SuperRuneQuest [RQ-RULES] boardgames Re: [RQ-RULES] boardgames RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 13:01:52 GMT From: "N.J. EFFINGHAM" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] SuperRuneQuest I don't believe that making comparisons between AD&D and RuneQuest is either easy or worthwhile. The question is, is it capable to get RuneQuest to work at high levels? I'd say the answer would be yes. But then over the years I ahve posted enough on the matter and find that everyone has their own personal, unchangeable opinion. For an example of what *I* think Heroes would be like I have written a few descriptions and added them to my webpage, found on the URL in my signature, Just IMHO, Nikk E. Nikk Effingham eng7nje@leeds.ac.uk http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/7556/ "If absolute power corrupts absolutely Where does that leave God?" -- George Daacon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 14:15:42 GMT From: "N.J. EFFINGHAM" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Webpage Update Just a note to say that my webpage has been updated with HeroQuests (including the Hill of Gold Quest), cults and Otkorioni information, as well as one or two other things that might or might not be of interest. Visit soon! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/7556/ Nikk E. Nikk Effingham eng7nje@leeds.ac.uk http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/7556/ "If absolute power corrupts absolutely Where does that leave God?" -- George Daacon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 17:25:10 +0200 From: Julian Lord Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] SuperRuneQuest N.J. EFFINGHAM: > I don't believe that making comparisons between AD&D and RuneQuest is > either easy or worthwhile. Except that AD&D is the only game that comes close to being an RPG standard ... I don't think it's easy, basically because RuneQuest is so inherently superior to AD&D, that most comparison will boil down to AD&D = crap. I think it's worthwhile, 'cos AD&D does some things that RQ don't. (for example, it handles high level play comparatively well, it's easy to use, and it _sells_) > The question is, is it capable [possible] to get RuneQuest to work at high > levels? I'd say the answer would be yes. Absolutely. It is possible. Therefore, RQ *isn't* broken. > But then over the years I have posted enough on the matter and find > that everyone has their own personal, unchangeable opinion. Well, my opinions are personal, but changeable.Dialectics: isn't the purpose of talking with someone to discover possible means for changing one's mind? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 12:50:44 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] SuperRuneQuest I'm sorry I missed the initial posts, I don't get the other post site. RU>> > IMHQ 2000% is maximum mortal skill level, but Gods, Superheroes RU>> > and Heroes on Quest with Huge Support can go up to 10.000%. RU>> > (theoretically, that is. I've NEVER played that high, Since the experience system is self limiting, it would take about 20 character years to approach 200%, so with the right Divine spells this might go up to modified 400%. Only special Heros are going to get the divine gifts to extend their life or train faster to exceed this basic limit. RU>> Irrelevant, why worry about numbers when the game system is already out the window. RU>'cos it isn't. Basic RPG isn't, at any rate. Are you going to toss all the old material when the new system comes out? Just like last time, all of the core players are going to look the new system over and decide if it is too bad to bother with, or whether they can stomach it for a new round of modules. RU>> RQ is Good to 100% and OK to 200% and completely RU>> meaningless above it (in much the same way that Pendragon(Pass) is). This is true. With a SuperCrit it can go just a little higher, and with a variation of Steve Maurer's hit results table from his HeroQuest rules it might go a little higher yet. That table made success levels relative to each other so that the system can extend farther. RU>> > A more practical maximum campaign level for a tweaked version of RQ. RU>> > HeroQuesting is probably about 800%, roughly equivalent to AD&D 8th RU>> I think not, 8th level AD&D (pting!) is still very mundane, not even rune level. It would be more correct to say that 8th - 10th levels are about the same as Mastery or Rune Level, that is 90% - 120%! RU>Not, I think, in its combat rules. 8th level characters can realistically enter RU>mass combat as heroes. Only against non-combatant peasants. RU>Fighters get eight attacks/round vs. zero-level humans.Equivalent to RQ 80% Zero level humans are non-com peasants, you can nearly do the same thing with a weapon master, a rune level, or a warrior over 70% who has plenty of spirit spell support. Example: SIZ 16 warrior with greatsword at 70% throws Coord 5 to raise his Dex over 20 and add 10% to attack, Bladesharp 6 adds 30%, and his strike rank is now 3 or 4. His first action is to split his 110% sword attack against two foes to do 2d6+str+6 at 35+10+30=75%, his second attack is a kick to a third opponent. The three actions go in SR4, SR7, and SR10. If you insist on halving the attack after adding modifiers (read the rules on which percent is halved before arguing this), then he should also have a Fanaticism to give a decent attack chance. Two of the three attacks should hit each round and kill or incapacitate a foe, move on and leave mop-up to the followers. For defense, the guy should have at least 6AP armor and Protection 6 to block the rabble counter- attacks. When he meets a real foe he changes the kick to a parry action. The only problem is the ever threatened rabble critical strike. That's what make trollkin dangerous. RU>I think not. If you look at Sun County, and think about the Sun Dome soldiery RU>bit, it becomes obvious that 50% to 90% is ordinary soldier level. Zero-leve RU>humans. But Sun Dome soldiers aren't zero level in Glorantha! In my game I set up a chart of ratings: Peasant atk/par <30% and few spells Militia atk/par <50% and 1/2 INT spells Soldier atk/par <60% and INT spells w/crystal Veteran atk/par <70%, INT spells, 2 crystal, bound spirit Warrior atk/par <80%, INT spells, 3 crystal, 2 bound spirit Leader atk/par <90%, INT spells, 4 crystal, 3 bound spirit Master atk/par >90%, INT spells, 5 crystal, 4 bound spirit These are rough levels for establishing NPC's that will be appropriate to the world. Each crystal is avg 6 MP's and can be traded for a POW spirit or 1pt divine matrix. The bound spirit can be any other type appropriate to the character or even an Allied spirit. Two crystals or one spirit can be exchanged for a Divine crystal, 2pt divine matrix or a small truestone (they are vastly overrated for player use, most priests won't recharge them unless the character is religious questing). Most Sun County farmers are militia trained to Militia, Soldier (most common), or maybe Veteran level. Hoplites are Soldier, Veteran (most common), and Warrior level with a few Leader and Master types grooming for Rune Status. Advanced Hoplites retire to village Headman status. The zero level humans in Sun County are the women and children with little or no weapon training (except Bab.Gor). RU>> I have both in RQ (up to 200%) and AD&D (up to 20th level) RU>> and both systems were at their limits (but still fun in a slightly RU>> silly manner). The systems do break down by these points, I have never seen a non-silly D&D game over 10th level. The silliest question may be why those people were still working together after so long. RU>well, I'm running 200% RQ, and think I'll go higher, but probably not up to RU>four-figure percentiles. I have put in one 800%+ NPC (Argrath circa 1620). I'm not sure Argrath was even a Hero by 1620, he was sailing around the Magasta Sea with Harrak then. You might try 200% base with some hero-questing gifts. RU>Running the Argrath NPC felt like running an 8th level character to me ... A real Hero level should have a lot more divine gifts besides just battle magic. Immortality, Regeneration, Area Effect spells,... Work on combat tactics and remember that a Hero includes his entourage of Rune Level friends. Bob Stancliff (Stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) to: INT:runequest-rules@mpgn.com cc: INT:lackey@gator.net INT:afn50803@afn.org toobear *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Jun 1998 18:56:32 +0200 From: Julian Lord Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] SuperRuneQuest >RU>> > IMHQ 2000% is maximum mortal skill level, but Gods, Superheroes > RU>> > and Heroes on Quest with Huge Support can go up to 10.000%. > RU>> > (theoretically, that is. I've NEVER played that high, > Since the experience system is self limiting, it would take about 20 > character years to approach 200%, so with the right Divine spells this > might go up to modified 400%. Only special Heros are going to get the > divine gifts to extend their life or train faster to exceed this basic > limit. Sure, but we *are* discussing HeroQuest here, not untweaked RQ.Experience and/or improvement is a slight problem of such rules ... > RU>> Irrelevant, why worry about numbers when the game system is already out the > window. > RU>'cos it isn't. Basic RPG isn't, at any rate. > Are you going to toss all the old material when the new system comes > out? Just like last time, all of the core players are going to look the > new system over and decide if it is too bad to bother with, or whether > they can stomach it for a new round of modules. Sounds like me. > RU>> RQ is Good to 100% and OK to 200% and completely > RU>> meaningless above it (in much the same way that Pendragon(Pass) is). > This is true. With a SuperCrit it can go just a little higher, and > with a variation of Steve Maurer's hit results table from his HeroQuest > rules it might go a little higher yet. That table made success levels > relative to each other so that the system can extend farther. Yeah, but Steve's system is too complicated. I have a Heroic success chance, equal to 1% for every full 100% skill.(ie 100 - 199 % skill gives 1% chance for Heroic success. 200 - 299 % gives 2% etc.) This extends meaningfulness up to 10.000%, while keeping the 2000% RQ threshold. Not for PCs, though. (sorry about being laconic ... ) Heroic success is basically a critical success which gives an extra skill roll. In combat, you can attack, parry or dodge one strike rank later, for free. This does the same thing as Steve's rules, minus headaches ... In this system, Harrek and Jar-Eel are about 6000% fighters ... (I think. untested, so not sure ... ) > RU>> > A more practical maximum campaign level for a tweaked version of RQ. > RU>> > HeroQuesting is probably about 800%, roughly equivalent to AD&D 8th > RU>> I think not, 8th level AD&D (pting!) is still very mundane, not even rune > level. > It would be more correct to say that 8th - 10th levels are about the > same as Mastery or Rune Level, that is 90% - 120%! Disagree. See description of Hero Wars system for convenient support of my position !!! > RU>Not, I think, in its combat rules. 8th level characters can realistically > enter > RU>mass combat as heroes. > Only against non-combatant peasants. NO. against zero-level soldiers.Even first, second and third level NPCs can't do much against medium level characters ... > RU>Fighters get eight attacks/round vs. zero-level humans.Equivalent to RQ 80% > Zero level humans are non-com peasants, not true, but this isn,'t the AD&D list ... > you can nearly do the same > thing with a weapon master, a rune level, or a warrior over 70% who has > plenty of spirit spell support. > Example: SIZ 16 warrior with greatsword at 70% throws Coord 5 to > raise his Dex over 20 and add 10% to attack, Bladesharp 6 adds 30%, and > his strike rank is now 3 or 4. His first action is to split his 110% > sword attack against two foes to do 2d6+str+6 at 35+10+30=75%, his > second attack is a kick to a third opponent. The three actions go in > SR4, SR7, and SR10. If you insist on halving the attack after adding > modifiers (read the rules on which percent is halved before arguing > this), then he should also have a Fanaticism to give a decent attack > chance. > Two of the three attacks should hit each round and kill or > incapacitate a foe, move on and leave mop-up to the followers. For > defense, the guy should have at least 6AP armor and Protection 6 to > block the rabble counter- attacks. When he meets a real foe he changes > the kick to a parry action. The only problem is the ever threatened > rabble critical strike. That's what make trollkin dangerous. OK, but I don't want to deal with such complications during play, although I *did* quite enjoy them when I was nineteen years old ... > RU>I think not. If you look at Sun County, and think about the Sun Dome soldiery > RU>bit, it becomes obvious that 50% to 90% is ordinary soldier level. Zero-leve > RU>humans. > But Sun Dome soldiers aren't zero level in Glorantha! > In my game I set up a chart of ratings: > Peasant atk/par <30% and few spells > Militia atk/par <50% and 1/2 INT spells > Soldier atk/par <60% and INT spells w/crystal > Veteran atk/par <70%, INT spells, 2 crystal, bound spirit > Warrior atk/par <80%, INT spells, 3 crystal, 2 bound spirit > Leader atk/par <90%, INT spells, 4 crystal, 3 bound spirit > Master atk/par >90%, INT spells, 5 crystal, 4 bound spirit > These are rough levels for establishing NPC's that will be > appropriate to the world. Sounds illogical. Why would professional soldiery be without professional training? Realistically, they would, rather, be trained up to the vicinity of 75%. The game system demands this. You can of course fiddle about with these figures IYG. > RU>> I have both in RQ (up to 200%) and AD&D (up to 20th level) > RU>> and both systems were at their limits (but still fun in a slightly > RU>> silly manner). > The systems do break down by these points, I have never seen a > non-silly D&D game over 10th level. The silliest question may be why > those people were still working together after so long. for gain. > RU>well, I'm running 200% RQ, and think I'll go higher, but probably not up to > RU>four-figure percentiles. I have put in one 800%+ NPC (Argrath circa 1620). > I'm not sure Argrath was even a Hero by 1620, he was sailing around > the Magasta Sea with Harrak then. You might try 200% base with some > hero-questing gifts. Naah. Harrek tries to KILL Argrath when he meets him circa 1620s, and _fails_ (KoS, p.something)Of course, all of this depends on the scope used ... I'm trying to use the most logical one. > RU>Running the Argrath NPC felt like running an 8th level character to me ... > A real Hero level should have a lot more divine gifts besides just > battle magic. Immortality, Regeneration, Area Effect spells,... > Work on combat tactics and remember that a Hero includes his > entourage of Rune Level friends. Of course he does, but he still has his own abilities ... See the Hero Wars stuff on the Glorantha Digest ... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 9:22:18 +0000 From: CWARD@srv0.bio.ed.ac.uk Subject: [RQ-RULES] boardgames Hi All, Hmmm, different opinions as to whether or not to post DP & NG questions here. As I didn't have anything lozenge shatteringly interesting to post on the Gloranthan essence of DP I thought my questions unsuited for the highbrow GD. Rather my puzzlement over how multi-stack conflicts work seamed more befitting the lowlife RQ-RD (no offence guys & gals :-)). Anyway, since it will be ages before I actually get the time to play NG/DP I'll reread the rules a couple of times and try to narrow down what confuses my poor non-wargaming brain. - In the meanwhile, I did not get a translation of the "Random Events" table with my copy of the DP-english roolz. Is anyone willing to check my pitiful attempts at translating the from the French ? (I think I got the gist of most of it). Before going, I'd just like to echo the endorsement of Stephen Martin's Drastic: Prax. I agree that this is one of the best RQ/Glorantha publications for years (ok, so I'm biased towards Prax). It is also what got me interested enough to order copies of the boardgames. Cheers for now - Chris. ps apologies about the lack of RQ-Rules stuff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 14:47:00 +0200 From: Julian Lord Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] boardgames > In the meanwhile, I did not > get a translation of the "Random Events" table with my copy of the > DP-english roolz. Is anyone willing to check my pitiful attempts at > translating the from the French ? (I think I got the gist of most of it). Sure, I'll do it ... I'm a perfect French/English bilingual. 'course, you might be better off just getting hold of the original english version. I'd do this for you too, except my copy's 500 miles away from me ... cheers Julian PS sometimes the GD is just too much for even the most fanatic Gloranthaphile. Boardgames discussion would be a nice whiff of fresh air IMHO. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #109 ************************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.