From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #198 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Friday, November 6 1998 Volume 01 : Number 198 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS [RQ-RULES] Re skill points : Re: [RQ-RULES] Separate attack/parry? [RQ-RULES] Re: RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #197 Re: [RQ-RULES] Separate attack/parry? [RQ-RULES] November Pitch Re: [RQ-RULES] Separate attack/parry? Re: [RQ-RULES] Separate attack/parry? Re: [RQ-RULES] November Pitch Re: [RQ-RULES] November Pitch [RQ-RULES] DMD - Fazzah for RQ?Greyhawk RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 11:07:14 +0000 From: Simon Hibbs Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re skill points : I say : >My main argument for amalgamating the other skills is one of skill >points economics. RQ gives a player an average of about 21 to 25 skill >points (Elric gives 250). That shoudl have been "210 to 250". oops. Si *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 12:23:05 +0000 From: Simon Hibbs Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Separate attack/parry? Bob Stancliff : >> I find the distinction artificial. The defensive value of many weapons >> is the threat of a counterattack rather than any ability to physicaly >> deflect an attack. Spears, shortswords and daggers are examples of this. > This is more often a case of a weapon not having an effective parry of >it's own, so it was used in some kind of weapon/shield combination. >Daggers often used a distraction in the off hand, and as for spears, they >are excellent parry items (especially 2-handed) similar to staves. That's true for 2 handed spears, however having tried to get past one while using a sword myself, I have to say the threat of getting poked was a far more effective deterrant than it's ability to block sword blows. Once past the spear point, I simply used my own body to knock aside the spear shaft and the poor sap was mincemeat. (This was during Sealed Knot practice session). The only chance a 2 handed spear user has is to skewer you before you get a chance to attack him at all. In fact, 2H spears are pretty useless as individual weapons, but are scarily effective if you've got some similarly equiped mates along with you. I'd bet on sword vs spear in a one-on-one, but spear versus sword in mass melee any day. This is simulated in both Elric and RQ3 using the 'closing on a long weapon' rules. >> one of the best ways to defend is to harrass your opponent >> with a flurry of aggressive blows designed to keep him occupied, >> thus preventing him from launching an attack. > This cannot currently be represented in any game without precise fatigue >rules. RQ3 can do it with minor modification. Aggressive simplification >will make it impossible. I don't see this as being agressive simplification. It makes (IMHO) little if any difference to the realism of the rules, makes it easier for new players to generate characters, yet keeps the advantages of the RQ combat system. It makes comat characters less specialised and more competent in a range of situations. I think that's a good thing. >> Finaly, many attack manoeuvres originate from a defensive >> manoeuvre. this is particularly true of several martial arts, where the >> defence and counterattack are often a single manoeuvre. > You ignore that defense/counter is innate to the European sword & shield >technique along with almost every other fighting style in the world. The >oriental martial arts don't really have a single defense that is an attack, >they have a defensive motion that flows straight into an attack motion >without a break. It is very efficient, but it is still defend/attack. Here you are just playing with semantics. Just becasue it's possible to categorise moves, or stages within a manoeuvre, as being an attack or a defence, does not mean there is any qualitative difference in the type of skill or technique used to execute it. Each separate manoeuvre in Karate could be represented as a separate skill, because each has to be learned one at a time. Each involves ballance, discipline, controlled use of force, etc. Categorising them as attack or defence is completely arbitrary - it's only the result that is different. The same is true of swordsmanship. After all a parry is simply a blow aimed at an incoming weapon as against a blow aimed at the opponent. You yourself mentioned quarterstaffs. The differece between a parry against an opposing blow from a quarterstaff and a bash at your opponent is only in the target. > In most styles of fighting, the battle is basically over when the first >defense is missed unless the successful attack is not incapacitating. In my experience many combats are ended because one combattant made an inept attack, opening himself to a counterstrike against which no defence was possible. It was the oberextended or inept attack that led to his downfall, and the skillful deflection of that attack and subsequent exploitation that was conclusive. A cunning and skillful defence is often the most dangerous ability a combattant can have. This is a truism in many if not all fighting arts. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:56:34 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #197 Whomever claimed that the spear, the short sword, or the dagger is unsuited to parrying has simply studied under incompetent masters. They are eminently suited to parrying--simply parrying in a different manner than a simple SCA-style "put it in front o' me hed". Indeed, the dagger was a primary parrying implement in the Renaissance. As for the spear, several Renaissance masters who describe its use definitely describe parrying with it. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 09:31:53 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Separate attack/parry? > Here you are just playing with semantics. Just becasue it's possible to > categorise moves, or stages within a manoeuvre, as being an attack or a > defence, does not mean there is any qualitative difference in the type > of skill or technique used to execute it. > Each separate manoeuvre in Karate could be represented as a separate > skill, because each has to be learned one at a time. Each involves > ballance, discipline, controlled use of force, etc. Categorising them as > attack or defence is completely arbitrary - it's only the result that is > different. The same is true of swordsmanship. Clearly we don't want to describe every maneuver with the weapon style and give them different skills levels, even though that might be 'realistic'. RQ went for a middle ground with an Attack and Parry skill group for each weapon. You and others are asking for a single skill roll for each weapon and I wonder if that is supposed to be used for the attack and parry both? Are you trying to combine down to one roll? I might counter with a different compromise... have an attack and parry skill for each weapon group (ie: 1H sword), not each weapon. It would be possible to use a 'relative success' results chart like Steve Maurer's (?) with a single skill roll for each player to resolve the results of one round. This would imply that in most rounds, only one person has a chance to inflict damage. With a 6 sec round this is not a bad assumption. While I am not happy with removing the parry skill, I am not totally adverse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 11:21:32 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: [RQ-RULES] November Pitch I've still got a few items that might be of interest to folks, so see below... Prices listed do not include shipping. Unless otherwise indicated, all items are used, but in VG - EX condition. A ""*"" after the price indicates that multiple copies are available. AHG - 857 - RuneQuest Deluxe (Boxed) (EX) $20.00 AHG - 85712 - Apple Lane (SW) $5.00* AHG - 8571 - RuneQuest 3 PC's Box (SW) $15.00* (This item contains books 1 & 2, plus dice, Player's Notes, and RQ2 -> RQ3 Conversion) AHG - 8572 - RuneQuest 3 GM's Box (SW) $15.00* (This item contains books 3, 4, & 5, plus map of Fantasy Europe & Play Aids) AHG - **** - Special! Take 8571 & 8572 for just - $25.00! AHG - 8575 - Character Sheets: Non-Human (SW) $5.00* AHG - 8590 - Sun County (SW) $6.00* also see the GW section for RQ3 Hardcovers! CHA - 2005 - Basic Role Playing $5.00* CHA - 2007 - thieves world boxed set (VG) $20.00 CHA - 2015 - thieves world companion (MN) $14.00* (see FASA section for thieves world modules) CHA - 2102 - Stormbringer Companion $10.00 CHA - 2106x - Hawkmoon Boxed Set (NM) $20.00 CHA - 2107 - Shattered Isle $8.00 CHA - 2111 - Rogue Mistress $15.00 CHA - 2501 - Ringworld boxed set (VG) $66.00 CHA - 2502 - Ringworld Companion (NM) $35.00* CHA - 2907 - The Unknown East (SW) $15.00 CHA - 3100 - Nephilim (Main Rulebook) $15.00* CHA - 40?? - Creatures of Chaos 1 (NM) $10.00* CHA - 4017 - Soloquest 1 (VG) $10.00 FASA - T1 - Traitor $10.00* FASA - T2 - The Spirit Stones $10.00 FASA - T3 - Dark Assassin $10.00* GW - 4614 - Basic RuneQuest Hardcover (NM) $20.00* GW - 4628 - Advanced RuneQuest Hardcover (NM) $20.00* GW - 4667 - Land of Ninja Hardcover - RQ3 (NM) $50.00 JG - 380 - Duck Pond (for RQ) $15.00 PAG - 1005 - Delta Green for CoC $24.00 RMM - 0010 - TotRM #10 - Sea Special $9.00 Grading Guide ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SW - Shrinkwrapped MN - Mint NM - Near Mint EX - Excellent VG - Very Good GD - Good FR - Fair PR - Poor Please e-mail me back if you're interested in anything, or have questions, etc. - -- talmeta@bellatlantic.net - I *am* one of the Chosen Few! ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta1 TANJ Lives! - Alternate Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:00:19 -0800 From: "Jarold Davis" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Separate attack/parry? Bob wrote: > You and others are asking for a single skill roll for each weapon >and I wonder if that is supposed to be used for the attack and parry both? >Are you trying to combine down to one roll? I might counter with a >different compromise... have an attack and parry skill for each weapon >group (ie: 1H sword), not each weapon. > It seems that only a couple of us are advocating attack and parry into one skill. What I'm trying IMC is using the Elric! rules for weapon skills. It's d100, just like RQ3, however, instead of having a Broadsword Attack of %75 and Broadsword Parry of 69%, a PC would have a Bsword skill of %75, which resolves both Attacks and Parries. Melee is still resolved by each combatant attacking and parrying (or dodging) blows. It speeds up the flow of the game, and no one misses keeping track of separate Attack and Parry skill levels. Realistic? Probably not. But in this case game flow makes up for any loss of realism (perceived or not). I think it's a viable optional rule. JD *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:54:33 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Separate attack/parry? > It seems that only a couple of us are advocating attack and parry into one > skill. What I'm trying IMC is using the Elric! rules for weapon skills. It's d100, > just like RQ3, however, instead of having a Broadsword Attack of %75 > and Broadsword Parry of 69%, a PC would have a Bsword skill of %75, which > resolves both Attacks and Parries. Melee is still resolved by each combatant > attacking and parrying (or dodging) blows. If you use the Sword % for attack and parry it seems that you have totally ignored or forgotten Shields. Your system could work great for 2H weapons, but the 1H sword used to attack and parry would not parry as good as the 1H sword used with a shield, if that is the way you learned it. The separate skills for parrying with different items is just too appropriate. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 15:36:27 -0800 From: Joseph Elric Smith Servant to Arioch Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] November Pitch Shoot I owe you a check right, sorry I'll get it out today, man I've got to get my life in order.ken > > > Please e-mail me back if you're interested in anything, or have > questions, etc. > > -- > talmeta@bellatlantic.net - I *am* one of the Chosen Few! > ICQ - 12594453 > AIM - talmeta1 > TANJ Lives! - > Alternate Homepage - > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 13:11:44 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] November Pitch Joseph Elric Smith Servant to Arioch wrote: > > Shoot I owe you a check right, sorry I'll get it out today, man I've got to get > my life in order.ken I'd have tracked you down eventually. :) - -- talmeta@bellatlantic.net - I *am* one of the Chosen Few! ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta1 TANJ Lives! - Alternate Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 13:27:03 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: [RQ-RULES] DMD - Fazzah for RQ?Greyhawk Gods of the Bakluni FAZZAH Runes: Earth, Fertility, Plant Fazzah is the goddess of fertile earth. Cult in the World Fazzah is the daughter of Istus and Koram, and is worshipped a much by those who cultivate plants as by those who graze their flocks, for she provides her bounty to both. In the distant past, long before the recorded time of men, when her husband Duskram was away, Fazzah agreed to watch over her sister Qozamal's son, Tzelaziim, while she attended to business elsewhere. Now in those days, Tzelaziim was merely an ugly, twisted thing, not known for treachery or deceit. Cultivating his aunt's pity, he somehow managed to lay with her, and from that union Ragniyah was born. Fazzah, the loyal wife, tried to hide her shame from her husband, but could not hope to pass off the child of that union as their own. Instead, she cast it from her and told him that it was stillborn. How the babe survived, let alone came to be raised by it's father is another tale... Fazzah's High Holy Day is the 1st of Readying, when crops are sown for the autumn harvest. Leser observances are held on the 7th and 21st of every month. By tradition, those who farm attend services on the 7th, and those who graze on the 21st. Fazzah's mosques are framed at both ends by tall silos of grain, and have floors of rich, dark earth. Fazzah's priestesses don a layered chador of dark brown, with keffiyeh of lush green, symbolizing the bounty that rises from the earth. Lay Membership Requirements: Lay members of this cult include mothers (of whom she is the patron), women who have given birth to misshapen or stillborn children, farmers, herdsmen and others who make their living from the soil. Skills taught by this cult inlcude Craft (Farming, Herding, Midwifery), First Aid, Lore (Animal, Plant, World), Ceremony, and Sickle attack. Initiate Membership Requirements: Standard. Fazzah's initiates travel typically travel the land, searching for blighted crops, areas that have been overfarmed, and deciding when a pasturelands have lain fallow long enough. Both males and females may become initiates of Fazzah. Spirit Magic: Birth Song, Bladesharp, Light, Repair, Solace Priesthood Requirements: Standard. Fazzah's priestesshood is open only to women, who are collectively known as Soil Mothers. Virtues for her priestesses include: Altruistic, Honorable, Loyal, and Modest. Common Divine Magic: all Special Divine Magic: Accelerate Growth, Bear Fruit, Bless Crops, Bounty, Earthtouch, Fertility, Marriage Oath, Tilling Enchantment Associated Gods Duskram: provides Reflection Monahai: provides Heal Body - -- talmeta@bellatlantic.net - I *am* one of the Chosen Few! ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta1 TANJ Lives! - Alternate Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #198 ************************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. 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