From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #5 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Thursday, January 14 1999 Volume 02 : Number 005 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] Hold vs. Presence Re: [RQ-RULES] Hold vs. Presence Re: [RQ-RULES] Hold vs. Presence Re: [RQ-RULES] Hold vs. Presence Re: [RQ-RULES] Hold vs. Presence [RQ-RULES] Re: rq digest [RQ-RULES] Re: rq digest RE: [RQ-RULES] Hold vs. Presence [RQ-RULES] Ooops.... Re: [RQ-RULES] Hold vs. Presence Re: [RQ-RULES] Ooops.... RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:38:23 -0600 From: "Rich Allen" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Hold vs. Presence > I prefer Sandy's system to the RQ3 system. Despite the accurate problems > you noted, I find the RQ3 system much more open to abuse. In RQ3, there > are no limits on how powerful a spell someone can have. And when the > sorcerers get matrices, the problem becomes very severe. The sorcerers > become juggernauts of destruction, with dam res 20, spell res 20, dam > boost 20 etc up, no one can touch them, and their merest touch lops off > arms. If you're playing in a game where a sorcerer has access to this much MP, it wasn't being run correctly. First of all, POW storage is RARE!!! It costs one POW per point of storage when creating the storage item... That's PERMANENT POW! To make an item that holds, say 15 MP, you must sacrifice 15 POW. How many sorcererers are willing to 3/4 of their POW?? (Remember, humans have a MAX POW of 21.) So, POW storage should not be encountered often, even if your game throws lots of sorcerers at the characters. Second, when you add duration costs to all of the spells in your example, you're talking about casting about 100 MP worth of spells. That's pretty much god-hood, if you can pull it off; why would you be worried about a bunch of mere mortal adventurers? Rich *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:42:08 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Hold vs. Presence Rich Allen wrote: > > If you're playing in a game where a sorcerer has access to this > much MP, it wasn't being run correctly. First of all, POW storage > is RARE!!! It costs one POW per point of storage when creating > the storage item... That's PERMANENT POW! To make an item > that holds, say 15 MP, you must sacrifice 15 POW. How many > sorcererers are willing to 3/4 of their POW?? (Remember, humans Actually, even the RQ3 erratta updates the MP Matrix gains to 1d10 (?) per point of POW. > Second, when you add duration costs to all of the spells in > your example, you're talking about casting about 100 MP worth of > spells. That's pretty much god-hood, if you can pull it off; why > would you be worried about a bunch of mere mortal adventurers? Multispell is your friend, in this case. :) - -- talmeta@bellatlantic.net - Heretic & Dilettante ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta1 Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:47:21 -0600 From: "Rich Allen" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Hold vs. Presence > Actually, even the RQ3 erratta updates the MP Matrix gains to 1d10 (?) per > point of POW. Even so, the sorcerer must decide how much POW to sacrifice before performing the ritual, and with something this random, he must hedge his bets, so to speak. We also believe that 1d10 is way too much; how can you go from a 1 to 1 system to a 1 to d10 system? Doesn't make sense. So in the game that uses the errata, we've reduced it to 1d6 per POW. It's still very expensive! > > Second, when you add duration costs to all of the spells in > > your example, you're talking about casting about 100 MP worth of > > spells. That's pretty much god-hood, if you can pull it off; why > > would you be worried about a bunch of mere mortal adventurers? > > Multispell is your friend, in this case. :) Multispell doesn't give you any savings in MP for the spells you cast together, it just allows all of those spells to resolve on the same strike rank. I'm not sure what you mean. Rich *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:50:07 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Hold vs. Presence > If you're playing in a game where a sorcerer has access to this > much MP, it wasn't being run correctly. First of all, POW storage > is RARE!!! It costs one POW per point of storage when creating > the storage item... That's PERMANENT POW! To make an item > that holds, say 15 MP, you must sacrifice 15 POW. How many > sorcererers are willing to 3/4 of their POW?? (Remember, humans > have a MAX POW of 21.) So, POW storage should not be > encountered often, even if your game throws lots of sorcerers at the > characters. > Second, when you add duration costs to all of the spells in > your example, you're talking about casting about 100 MP worth of > spells. That's pretty much god-hood, if you can pull it off; why > would you be worried about a bunch of mere mortal adventurers? Well, only if you do it that way. The correct solution is a Pow Spirit bind costing 1 Pow, and putting a Pow Spirit into it which averages 10 - 12 Pow. Make ten of these over a two or three year time and you have over 100 MP. If you can't make ten Pow checks in two game years, then you haven't been trying. Also, don't forget that Pow storage crystals can be used by sorcerers and average 8 - 12 MP. If you don't give these out in treasure occasionally then your game wasn't being run correctly. For those who saw it, there was an errata sheet for RQ3 that changed Pow storage matrix to d10 (I made it d6+2 instead). Finally, if you are putting Duration an all of those spells, then you only need one 10 Pow storage crystal and you cast one or two spells a day. It is easy to pay a few peasants to put a couple of MP's each into your crystal. Keeping every defensive spell up that you know, plus Damage Boost, with durations of one to eight weeks, is Normal. Bob Stancliff (stanclif@ufl.edu) http://commnections.com/upgrades *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:53:02 -0600 From: "Paul Stolar" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Hold vs. Presence Actually, it doesn't require that much. Create a POW spirit binding enchantment (cost 1 POW). It can hold as big of a POW spirit you can place in there. Also, it regenerates on its own. - -----Original Message----- From: Tal Meta To: runequest-rules@MPGN.COM Date: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Hold vs. Presence >Rich Allen wrote: >> >> If you're playing in a game where a sorcerer has access to this >> much MP, it wasn't being run correctly. First of all, POW storage >> is RARE!!! It costs one POW per point of storage when creating >> the storage item... That's PERMANENT POW! To make an item >> that holds, say 15 MP, you must sacrifice 15 POW. How many >> sorcererers are willing to 3/4 of their POW?? (Remember, humans > >Actually, even the RQ3 erratta updates the MP Matrix gains to 1d10 (?) >per point of POW. > >> Second, when you add duration costs to all of the spells in >> your example, you're talking about casting about 100 MP worth of >> spells. That's pretty much god-hood, if you can pull it off; why >> would you be worried about a bunch of mere mortal adventurers? > >Multispell is your friend, in this case. :) > >-- >talmeta@bellatlantic.net - Heretic & Dilettante >ICQ - 12594453 >AIM - talmeta1 >Homepage - > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:16:58 -0000 From: "Mark Buckley" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: rq digest Tal Meta (>) and me (>>): >> The version that I have came from Craig's Glorantha Page: >> http://www.hccweb.demon.co.uk/glorantha/sandy.htm > >You missed his blurb: "The dates refer to when I posted the file NOT >when Sandy wrote the rules! " > >The one on http://www.pensee.com/dunham/glorantha/sorcery.html reads: > >Hold > >lets you hold a single sorcery spell ready to cast. The MPs in Hold must >at least equal the highest other Art used. The spell pops onto the >Otherworld, where it remains ready for release. This gives you an >"emergency" spell. When a Held spell is loosed, it goes off on your DEX >SR. Held spells count vs. the user's Presence. Note: Permanence can be >combined with Hold. Hm, the actual date on the text on David Dunham's page is 1997, whereas the one on Craig's page is 1998 (the date in the text, not the date the file was posted). Anyway, after some discussion, I think that we have decided how we want to play it, we will let a Sorceror have many Held spells, but they count full Presence until released. If that causes foul ups, then we will go to allowing one spell Held for free...hence my interest in 'False Presence' enchantments. >That's the way I read Multispell as well. For my own purposes, I've also >ruled that a "block" of Multispelled spells acts in all ways as a single >spell, not just in the casting/resistance phase. (i.e. if you multispell >resist damage, castback, and fly on yourself, and somone successfully >targets the fly with a neutralize magic, the other two spells fail when >the "block" unravels). Very nice idea, which I shall incorporate. Maybe I won't tell the players about this yet... (although with 90% Multispell skill, I guess the characters should know it). >> While I was thinking about all this, I was wondering about use of Presence >> generally, and I started to think about some sort of Enchantment that creates >> Presence. Then you could cast a spell, using your Hold skill to put it into the item, and >> it would Hold the spell until it was released to create a one-shot magic item. > >Hmm. You get almost the same effect by creating a spell matrix for the >spell (each additional point adds +10% (1 Art level) to the caster's >chance. Might be useful for rapid release, though. I wasn't really thinking of something along the lines of a spell matrix, rather like 'detached Presence' that can hold any spell. e.g. with a POW 8 Presence enchantment, Sorceror casts (Palsy 4, Hold 4) into it (basically using his Hold skill to stop the spell activating, then transferring it into the enchantment). The object holds the spell until he releases it, at which point the enchantment becomes emptied. Next, he casts (Evoke Flame 3, Hold 3, Multispell 2) into it, which it holds until he releases it. Whether the matrix can maintain the spell after it has been loosed is another matter...I guess that the default would be that the person holding the object has to use their Presence to maintain the spell. If they aren't a sorceror, they can't maintain it. cheers, Mark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:35:21 -0000 From: "Mark Buckley" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: rq digest Andrew Barton (>) & me (>>) >> basically if you try hard enough, you can cast any spell eventually, therefore you >>just write down the spells that you want to 'precast', and skill %ages become >>pointless. > >Unless you make fumbles dangerous. One approach would be to rule that on a >fumble you -think- you've succeeded, only discovering otherwise when you >come to use the spell. One idea that just occurred to me was to allow the sorceror Held spells, as normal, but to require a roll vs Hold skill or lowest spell skill when it is released. If you fail, the spell doesn't get released and if you fumble, it is released but has no effect (or backfires, whatever). Ceremony can be used. This would introduce some uncertainty into Holding spells, which I think is good. cheers, mark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:54:48 -0000 From: Ashley Munday Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Hold vs. Presence How about POW spirits? 1 POW enchantment to bind one in so it's fairly easy to get large numbers of magic points that way. A magic user with 15 POW could relatively easily (well, 75% ish) bind an 8-10 POW spirit, especially if he's got one already bound to expend the magic points for the summoning and binding spell. Just totalling the magic points of my players adventurers four of 8 of them have over 100 magic points available - and none of them are sorcerers. Cheers, Aesc -----Original Message----- From: Rich Allen [mailto:rico@mindspring.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 11:38 PM To: runequest-rules@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Hold vs. Presence > I prefer Sandy's system to the RQ3 system. Despite the accurate problems > you noted, I find the RQ3 system much more open to abuse. In RQ3, there > are no limits on how powerful a spell someone can have. And when the > sorcerers get matrices, the problem becomes very severe. The sorcerers > become juggernauts of destruction, with dam res 20, spell res 20, dam > boost 20 etc up, no one can touch them, and their merest touch lops off > arms. If you're playing in a game where a sorcerer has access to this much MP, it wasn't being run correctly. First of all, POW storage is RARE!!! It costs one POW per point of storage when creating the storage item... That's PERMANENT POW! To make an item that holds, say 15 MP, you must sacrifice 15 POW. How many sorcererers are willing to 3/4 of their POW?? (Remember, humans have a MAX POW of 21.) So, POW storage should not be encountered often, even if your game throws lots of sorcerers at the characters. Second, when you add duration costs to all of the spells in your example, you're talking about casting about 100 MP worth of spells. That's pretty much god-hood, if you can pull it off; why would you be worried about a bunch of mere mortal adventurers? Rich *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:10:48 -0000 From: Ashley Munday Subject: [RQ-RULES] Ooops.... I should have read all the posts in the last batch before jumping on the POW spirit example as about 700 people (okay, 3 or so) got there before me. Incidentally, another way of dealing with the "duration crisis" might be to not have a duration art or require presence but make the sorcerer pay the magic point cost for temporal spells every "unit of duration" (whatever that may turn out to be!). GURPS (and The Fantasy Trip) use this idea. Another one might be to add the full cost of the spell for each doubling of duration, rather than just adding 1 magic point - so if you cast an Intensity 5 spell then each level of duration costs 5 magic points. The last one could be a bit far in the opposite direction for most people. ("What do you mean I have to spend 40 magic points to get Duration 5 on an Intensity 8 spell!?!?!?!?") Ash *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:46:11 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Hold vs. Presence > > Multispell is your friend, in this case. :) > > Multispell doesn't give you any savings in MP for the spells you > cast together, it just allows all of those spells to resolve on the > same strike rank. I'm not sure what you mean. > Rich The errata for MultiSpell is in 'Stranger in Prax'. The new effect is to reduce the MP cost to that required by the largest spell + 1MP / Multi. Basically it takes all of the time of all of the spells but only costs one spell's MP's plus the duplication cost. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:58:08 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Ooops.... > Another one might be to add the full cost of the spell for each doubling of > duration, rather than just adding 1 magic point - so if you cast an > Intensity 5 spell then each level of duration costs 5 magic points. The last > one could be a bit far in the opposite direction for most people. ("What do > you mean I have to spend 40 magic points to get Duration 5 on an Intensity 8 > spell!?!?!?!?") > Ash Not a bad idea. New players shouldn't be able to do much Duration and experienced players have enough MP's to cover this. Bob Stancliff (stanclif@ufl.edu) http://commnections.com/upgrades *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #5 *********************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. 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