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Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #13
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RuneQuest Rules Digest    Tuesday, January 19 1999    Volume 02 : Number 013




RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved.

TABLE OF CONTENTS

[RQ-RULES] Re: A Plug for SotB
Re: [RQ-RULES] Why Sorcerers Build Magic Point Matrices
Re: [RQ-RULES] Why Sorcerers Build Magic Point Matrices
[RQ-RULES] Other Previous Experience
Re: [RQ-RULES] Why Sorcerers Build Magic Point Matrices
Re: [RQ-RULES] Why Sorcerers Build Magic Point Matrices
Re: [RQ-RULES] Why Sorcerers Build Magic Point Matrices
Re: [RQ-RULES] Why Sorcerers Build Magic Point Matrices

RULES OF THE ROAD

1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially
   not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated.
   If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show"
   please do.  But don't include the whole message you praise.
2. Use an appropriate Subject line.
3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a
   point-by-point basis.
4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready
   to stand by it.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:52:04 -0600
From: "Rich Allen" <rico@mindspring.com>
Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: A Plug for SotB

> but I've used the rules for cavern crawling...

Hmm, that sounds very interesting.  I guess I'll have to track down 
a copy.  Thanks!

Rich Allen


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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:49:55 -0600
From: "Rich Allen" <rico@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Why Sorcerers Build Magic Point Matrices

> I think step number one for any sorcerer character is realy 'create
> familiar'. Its a fairly low-risk spell and it gets you both extra Free INT
> and an MP reservoir. It's very good value, even at the cost of a point of
> INT.

	The vast majority of new characters will not meet the 
requirements for becoming an adept, and only those apprentices 
"graduating" to Adept would be allowed to create their own familiar. 
 And what if the creature you want to make your familiar needs 
more than INT?  Granted, most new Adepts will probably choose 
some kind of mundane animal, complete except for the fixed INT, 
so it won't come up much.
	Just curious: do you have an alternate method for creating 
characters than what's listed in the book?  Or do you just allow 
starting characters more than the 2d6+15 for starting age?  I'd 
really like to see some good rules for creating more powerful mid-
level characters.

> >        I stand by my statement that a sorcerer cannot cast Damage
> >Resist 20, Damage Boosting 20, and Spell Resist 20 in any useful
> >period of time.
> 
> Probably not, but 15 points is certainly doable. Why you would want to
> cast all three spells on the same traget is a mystery to me though.

ME TOO!!!  <smile>  Look, this whole discussion started when 
someone said RQ3 sorcerery is broken when you could have 
sorcerers running around with the above three spells at those 
levels.  I replied that if you had a sorcerer that could cast those 
three spells before a combat, you weren't playing by the rules.  
That was before I was shown the errata'd multispell, so MP isn't an 
issue anymore, but Free INT still prevents it.
 
> BTW in the latter case if I come across a 10 point MPME with 10 MPs
> stored in it, according to your rules I can't use the MPs.
> Does that mean that the enchantment is useless to me? After all I can't

You must have missed my earlier post where I said we use a rule 
that requires POW crystals to be attuned before they can be used, 
and that the process of attuning them empties them of any 
previous owner's MPs.  This is an additional rule to fill a gap where 
none exist, we're aren't changing an existing rule, because none 
exist for this situation.

> Perhaps in your game, but most sorcerers will get a POW check per
> session most of the time. That probably equates to a point of POW every

Do your adventures only last one session?  Ours last, on average, 
about five or six sessions.  POW gain rolls, according to the rules, 
can only be done when experience gain rolls are done, and that is 
at the end of an adventure, after the character has had time to relax 
and reflect on what happened during the adventure.  I know, it 
doesn't make sense, but it's in the rules, and we really do try to 
play within the rules as written.

> >The rules doo not specify the opposite, either, so how are we
> >changing rules?  In fact, the rule states that "the user of the item" can
> >move his MP's into the item.  We choose to interpret that as the person
> >attuned to the crystal.  You don't.  Both are correct, as far as the
> >rules go.
> 
> What's this got to do with crystals? I thought we were talking about

See above.  We basically extend the attuning rules of crystals to 
cover all MPME.  YCMV.

> >What rules have I proposed changing?  We have created rules to fill
> >in gaps that weren't covered in the published rule books.
> and I quote :
> 
> {        We rule that MP's stored in a crystal (or any other magic point
> {matrix item) can only be used by the individual that put them there, {and
> only one person's MP's can be in an MPMatrix at a time.

Once again, there is no rule to contradict this, so what rule are we 
changing?  We are adding rules to cover situations were none 
exist, that's all.

> {        I don't allow sorcerers (or priests) to summon spirits with the
> {Summon(creature) spell.  If you allow that, there's really no need
> {for the Shaman as a player character.

No rules have been changed here, we simply make knowledge of 
the sorcery summon spell very rare.  Adventuring characters 
(which, by the way, make up 100% of our characters) simply can't 
find anyone to teach them the spell, and even if they could, none of 
them want to "waste" several months of adventuring sitting around 
being a servant to a sorcerer while he teaches them.

> >Where are these tables?  The encounter table for the "Inner
> >Region" of the spirit plane.......
> 
> Er... I think you just answered your own question.......

How does 4d6+3 cover 35 POW spirits?  Or 50 POW, or 100?

> I think you'll find that you don't have to increase the intensity of the
> summon spell to put more MPs into it, any more than a shaman has to cast a
> 15 point spirit spell to summon a POW 15 spirit. You cast the spell first
> _then_ you sacrifice the MPs to summon the spirit. I admit it's not totaly
> clear in the rules paragraph, but the example given in the side bar is
> pretty clear.

Maybe we have different versions of the rule books; that would 
certainly explain the differences we seems to have in interpretation. 
 My rule books (RQ3 Deluxe Edition) have no side bar examples of 
summoning spells or rituals of any kind, and the rules themselves 
very clearly state that enough extra MP's must be pumped into the 
summon spell to cover the MP's of the summoned creature or that 
summon spell automatically fails.
	One interesting contradiction I found in the Magic book though.  
In the Manipulation section, it says that rituals cannot be part of a 
multispell stack, and this is stated in the errata for Multispell as 
well.  But in the last section of the ritual magic, it says you can 
multispell the summon ritual with the dominate spell so that the 
dominate can be cast before the spirit either runs away or engages 
you in spirit combat.  Probably more of an exception to the rule, 
rather than a contradiction, but it's interesting, don't you think?

> I know, that's what it says in the rule book. Did I say otherwise?......
> No, I didn't think so.

Damn dude, that message was not aimed at any one person!  Do 
you think these disussion are with you alone?  I'm just trying to 
understand how powerful characters can do what is claimed they 
are doing, pointing out that rules as stated make some of the 
examples given here by other people either impossible or very 
improbable.  Relax!  I'm not attacking anyone!  <smile>

Rich Allen


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:53:51 -0500
From: Tal Meta <talmeta@bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Why Sorcerers Build Magic Point Matrices

Rich Allen wrote:
> 
>         Just curious: do you have an alternate method for creating
> characters than what's listed in the book?  Or do you just allow
> starting characters more than the 2d6+15 for starting age?  I'd
> really like to see some good rules for creating more powerful mid-
> level characters.

I use a point system much like GURPS or Shadowrun for creating new
characters. All stats begin at average, and can be bought up (or sold
down) with points. But I freely admit to having a wide variety of house
rules in effect.

> ME TOO!!!  <smile>  Look, this whole discussion started when
> someone said RQ3 sorcerery is broken when you could have
> sorcerers running around with the above three spells at those
> levels.  I replied that if you had a sorcerer that could cast those
> three spells before a combat, you weren't playing by the rules.
> That was before I was shown the errata'd multispell, so MP isn't an
> issue anymore, but Free INT still prevents it.

Have you ever looked at the Sorcery rules Sandy Petersen wrote? (I
forget if this question has already been asked). 

- -- 
talmeta@bellatlantic.net - Heretic & Dilettante
ICQ - 12594453
AIM - talmeta1
Homepage - <http://members.xoom.com/talmeta>

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:22:06 -0500
From: "Jim Bickmeyer" <jfb@i2k.com>
Subject: [RQ-RULES] Other Previous Experience

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BE43E9.6229CC60
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Rich Allen
>I'd really like to see some good rules for creating more powerful =
mid-level characters.
=20
Find the RQ4 rules on the net.  Look at their previous experience =
section.  With that system you decide if the starting characters are =
novice, average, expert or master.  Each level of experience has a range =
of points that are used to buy first the characters basic skills at =
their level of expertise then they can buy optional skill.  Skills =
outside their area of expertise cost double.  Oh and don't forget about =
the bonus for cultural skills.
=20
I reset my whole campaign late last year and had the players use these =
rules to create their characters.  They were very enthusiastic once they =
started to design the characters they wanted.  One thing I decided, if I =
were to allow them to purchase a skill above the set experience level.  =
I would make them pay double for each level.  Thus the Average character =
that wanted master at a skill, would have to pay the expert level as =
well as the master.
=20
I believe it was posted by Stephen Marsh.  Thank You Stephen.  Sorry but =
I don't know where it is on the net now.
=20
I didn't like the format,  didn't flow.  I had to reformat it in Word =
with tables and it looks much cleaner.  Stephen's was htm format.  So if =
someone wants my format, I would be willing to e-mail it to you.  Just =
contact me direct.
=20
Jim

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 =
HTML//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Rich Allen</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT color=3D#000000>&gt;I'd really like to see =
some good rules=20
for creating more powerful mid-level characters.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Find the RQ4 rules on the net.&nbsp; =
Look at=20
their previous experience section.&nbsp; With that system you decide if =
the=20
starting characters are novice, average, expert or master.&nbsp; Each =
level of=20
experience has a range of points that are used to buy first the =
characters basic=20
skills at their level of expertise then they can buy optional =
skill.&nbsp;=20
Skills outside their area of expertise cost double.&nbsp; Oh and don't =
forget=20
about the bonus for cultural skills.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I reset my whole campaign late last =
year and had=20
the players use these rules to create their characters.&nbsp; They were =
very=20
enthusiastic once they started to design the characters they =
wanted.&nbsp; One=20
thing I decided, if I were to allow them to purchase a skill above the =
set=20
experience level.&nbsp; I would make them pay double for each =
level.&nbsp; Thus=20
the Average character that wanted master at a skill, would have to pay =
the=20
expert level as well as the master.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I believe it was posted by Stephen =
Marsh.&nbsp;=20
Thank You Stephen.&nbsp; Sorry but I don't know where it is on the net=20
now.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I didn't like the format,&nbsp; =
didn't=20
flow.&nbsp; I had to reformat it in Word with tables and it looks much=20
cleaner.&nbsp; Stephen's was htm format.&nbsp; So if someone wants my =
format, I=20
would be willing to e-mail it to you.&nbsp; Just contact me =
direct.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Jim</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BE43E9.6229CC60--


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:42:49 -0600
From: "Rich Allen" <rico@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Why Sorcerers Build Magic Point Matrices

> Have you ever looked at the Sorcery rules Sandy Petersen wrote? (I
> forget if this question has already been asked). 

To be honest, I haven't done more than glance through them 
quickly.  I know we're probably in the minority here, but we like the 
sorcerery rules as published in RQ3.  Our character are for the 
most part heroic in nature...  They are far from average citizens, 
they're just not as powerful as some of the characters played in 
other campaigns, apparently.  We like it this way, but I'm not trying 
to slam the high-powered campaigns, either.  To each his own.
     I do plan to read Sandy's rules more closely...  And I've been 
toying with introducing a Rune magic system, sort of like the rune 
cards/tiles system discussed on the usenet recently, but using 
runic words of power strung together to make magical sentences 
which work as spells.  This will be something that works alongside 
the existing magical styles, not a replacement of any of them.

Rich Allen

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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:42:49 -0600
From: "Rich Allen" <rico@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Why Sorcerers Build Magic Point Matrices

> Have you ever looked at the Sorcery rules Sandy Petersen wrote? (I
> forget if this question has already been asked). 

To be honest, I haven't done more than glance through them 
quickly.  I know we're probably in the minority here, but we like the 
sorcerery rules as published in RQ3.  Our character are for the 
most part heroic in nature...  They are far from average citizens, 
they're just not as powerful as some of the characters played in 
other campaigns, apparently.  We like it this way, but I'm not trying 
to slam the high-powered campaigns, either.  To each his own.
     I do plan to read Sandy's rules more closely...  And I've been 
toying with introducing a Rune magic system, sort of like the rune 
cards/tiles system discussed on the usenet recently, but using 
runic words of power strung together to make magical sentences 
which work as spells.  This will be something that works alongside 
the existing magical styles, not a replacement of any of them.

Rich Allen

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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:45:45 -0600
From: "Rich Allen" <rico@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Why Sorcerers Build Magic Point Matrices

> Have you ever looked at the Sorcery rules Sandy Petersen wrote? (I
> forget if this question has already been asked). 

To be honest, I haven't done more than glance through them 
quickly.  I know we're probably in the minority here, but we like the 
sorcerery rules as published in RQ3.  Our character are for the 
most part heroic in nature...  They are far from average citizens, 
they're just not as powerful as some of the characters played in 
other campaigns, apparently.  We like it this way, but I'm not trying 
to slam the high-powered campaigns, either.  To each his own.
     I do plan to read Sandy's rules more closely...  And I've been 
toying with introducing a Rune magic system, sort of like the rune 
cards/tiles system discussed on the usenet recently, but using 
runic words of power strung together to make magical sentences 
which work as spells.  This will be something that works alongside 
the existing magical styles, not a replacement of any of them.

Rich Allen

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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:19:31 -0500
From: Tal Meta <talmeta@bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Why Sorcerers Build Magic Point Matrices

Rich Allen wrote:
> 
> To be honest, I haven't done more than glance through them
> quickly.  I know we're probably in the minority here, but we like the
> sorcerery rules as published in RQ3.  Our character are for the

I was once a big fan of it as well. But I know a better thing when I see
it. :)

> which work as spells.  This will be something that works alongside
> the existing magical styles, not a replacement of any of them.

I've used John Schultz's Magica rules to import AD&D wizardry into my
campaign. Adding new things isn't always bad, afterall.

- -- 
talmeta@bellatlantic.net - Heretic & Dilettante
ICQ - 12594453
AIM - talmeta1
Homepage - <http://members.xoom.com/talmeta>

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End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #13
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