From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #29 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Wednesday, February 10 1999 Volume 02 : Number 029 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS RE: [RQ-RULES] Multispell question RE: [RQ-RULES] Ogres as PCs RE: [RQ-RULES] Ogres as PCs Re: [RQ-RULES] Ogres as PCs Re: [RQ-RULES] Western Islands [RQ-RULES] The Grimoire RE: [RQ-RULES] Ogres as PCs RE: [RQ-RULES] The Grimoire RE: [RQ-RULES] Western Islands RE: [RQ-RULES] The Grimoire Re: [RQ-RULES] Western Islands Re: [RQ-RULES] Ogres as PCs Re: [RQ-RULES] The Grimoire RE: [RQ-RULES] The Grimoire RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 17:58:14 +0000 From: Simon Hibbs Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Multispell question Phil : >Not in Sandy's sorcery, were DB10 gives +1d10. However, this is cheaper than >PT20. Cool, I hadn't realised he'd taken that on board! >>* Tactic versus mounted opponents : Diminish SIZ on their >>mounts. Saddles, harnesses and barding will all slide... > >Unless you use a 'cinematic' interpretation of Diminish SIZ, where all the >gear shrinks as well. The rules are unclear. That's cool. I can't imagine that having his saddle halved in size will do much for the comfort factor of the average knight's groin area (ouch!). >Also, in Sandy's, Phantom Touch does not do damage, you must use Damage >Boosting, physically heat it up, or cast some other spell on it to make it >hurt. I think it shoudl do damage on it's own, but you'd only be able to use it at a weapon skill of DEX x5%. Why not as a separate weapon skill? Well, it's a lot easier to hit an opponent if you're at a safe distance, and in no danger of being hit yourself. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 18:14:27 +0000 From: Simon Hibbs Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Ogres as PCs Rich Allen : > Does this ogre have some particular reason why it has to eat human flesh? Er, it's an Ogre! >While Ogres do prefer to eat the flesh of sentient beings (not just humans), >there are no rules as far as I know that preclude them from eating beef, >venison, or any of the other common foods. There are no rules, but then Ogres are supposed to be NPCs. You don't get a complete cultural or biological writeup any more than you did for Trolls or Aldryami in the orriginal RQ2 rulebook. Havign siad that the 'What the Cacodemon Priest told me' stuff on Ogres is pretty explicit as far as it goes. I rule that Ogres can eat other food, but eating beef and pork to an Ogre is like a human trying to live off only maize. You can eat it, but after a while it gets very samey and unsatisfying. Also, Ogres (IMG) aren't realy into vegetables - they realy prefer an all-meat diet, a bit like cats. Meanwhile, you're in the company of all these tasty people - and they smell soooo goooood! An Ogre who doesn't dine on human flesh has to make Fatigue rolls every day, or lose permanent fatigue levels untill they feast on man meat (I use an RQ4 fatigue system variant). I've also worked out a heroquest for an Ogre to become human. Basicaly, I don't see any reason why a player should gain a massive advantage like double strength for no real cost. I've seen it happen loads of times. Ogres gain their strength mythicaly by eating their foes and thus partaking of their supernatural vitality, so I think they should have to keep doing so to maintain it. Dumb animals, including herd men, just don't make the grade. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:52:25 -0600 From: "Rich Allen" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Ogres as PCs > There are no rules, but then Ogres are supposed to be NPCs. You don't > get a complete cultural or biological writeup any more than you did for > Trolls or Aldryami in the orriginal RQ2 rulebook. Actually, Ogres are treated exactly like Dwarves, Elves, Halflings, Ducks, etc. All of which are optional PC races, and are given pretty much the same amount of write-up in the creature book. We are talking about RQ3 here, right? As far as I can see in the creature book, the thing that balances the ogres greater strength is the fact that they are chaos creatures, and are thus hunted by anyone opposed to chaos. Their need to remain "hidden" as a race more than makes up for an extra die or two when rolling up their strength. Rich Allen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:54:13 +1000 From: Robert McArthur Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Ogres as PCs Simon Hibbs wrote: ... > I've also worked out a heroquest for an Ogre to become human. I wouldn't mind seeing this! > Basicaly, I don't see any reason why a player should gain a massive > advantage like double strength for no real cost. I've seen it happen > loads of times. Ogres gain their strength mythicaly by eating their foes > and thus partaking of their supernatural vitality, so I think they > should have to keep doing so to maintain it. Dumb animals, including > herd men, just don't make the grade. I don't think that ogres gain their strength mythically - it's now part of creation. It'd be like saying "humans have two legs mythically". Not the basis of humans having two legs really. I think they get their strength through their ties to chaos - the chance that a particular ogre has of gaining a chaotic feature, and, as someone else pointed out, their need to hide in society, more than makes up for the doubled strength. I would hope your heroquest doesn't take away the doubled strength. Given that almost no Ogre *wants* to do the quest (unless they're are illuminated or in some way enlightened away from chaos!), what's the light at the end of the tunnel for them? Don't take away their one strength :-) I think such a heroquest should, perhaps, leave them tied to chaos though - there are precious few heroquests which actually cleanse someone of chaos and I don't think cacodaemon, or an ex-Ogre hero, knows one! So I suspect that the quest is a) hard; b) not one most/any ogre voluntarily goes one; c) doesn't change their strength; d) perhaps modifies their chaotic links... how about turning them into disorder links!! Through the great power of disorder, ogres can be changed into...disorder creatures. They lose any chaos features they have, and get 'disorder features' instead (MGF making up some great disorder features!). Enough rambling for now... Cheers Robert *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 18:45:40 -0800 From: thomas merring Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Western Islands N.J. EFFINGHAM wrote: > > > I can't find information on the inhabitants of the various islands West > > of Genertela (in my boxed set). does anybody know what's "supposed to be" > > there? > > While this might be somewhat of a digest crossover - I think you find > a small selection of Brithini left over from the dissappearance of > Brithos, Ygg Islanders (think Vikings) so you have Wolf Pirates as > well, probably Vadeli, and further West you find Luatha. > > Nikk E. > > > Ah. As it happens, i was thinking Vikings. The Ygg Islands looked like a nice place to plop them down, especially with the convenient coast near at hand to raid or trade. Tom Merring *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:37:45 -0000 From: "Mark Buckley" Subject: [RQ-RULES] The Grimoire Simon Hibbs writes: >* Multispell Diminish CON and Smother. and in Sandy's Grimoire I notice: * Multispell Diminish CON and Venom. These uses assume that the spells strike in a specific order (i.e. Diminish CON, then Smother/Venom) to have maximum effect. I thought that Multispelled spells all hit at the same moment, in which case the targets CON for resistance would surely be that *before* the Diminish CON (or whatever other spell is used) takes effect? Or can you choose the order of effect? (e-rustle, looks up Sandy's latest sorcery): "When attack spells are combined, each defender needs to make only one resistance roll. If he fails, all the spells take effect. If he resists, none do. If the spells have different chances of overcoming him, use the single die roll to determine success or failure for all. Thus, one spell could succeed while another fails. The single Intensity is used for all the spells combined when breaking through magic defenses. Thus a Countermagic 4 would resist fifteen Multispelled 2–point spells." This reads to me that you do apply them all simultaneously. BTW, for purposes of our game, and after consulting the players of the sorcerors, we decided to resolve the Hold question by letting them have as many Held spells as they like, but all take up full Presence until released. This doesn't really hamper their casting normal spells too much, since they can still cast *over* their Presence limit. I'm still toying with the idea of requiring a Hold roll to release the spell, rather than when it is cast (Failure = no effect, still have spell, maybe reduce Intensity by 1? Fumble = no effect, lose Held spell), since if you try long enough when you are safe, you'll do it eventually... cheers, Mark Buckley. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:38:12 -0000 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Ogres as PCs >I don't think that ogres gain their strength >mythically - it's now part of creation. But Gloranthan ogres can be humans who indulged in cannibalism, and transformed, in the same way that they could have become a broo if they had raped. (Not all suffer this fate, only the very worst and persistent offenders). I know, that's Gloranthan, but my grandmother used to believe that the crumbs in the bottom of the toaster would turn into maggots, so transformation is a common theory, that is not confined to some mythical past. Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Failure is not an option, it's integral to the o/s. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:42:07 -0000 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] The Grimoire >I thought that Multispelled spells all hit at the same moment, >in which case the targets CON for resistance would surely >be that *before* the Diminish CON So you say they should be simultaneous, then prescribe a specific order for them? Bizarre! I'd say as they both affect simultaneously, the reduced CON would be used. That's evidently the way Sandy interprets the rules. Besides, I always thought Venom should take effect 3 MR later, like all other venoms (or was that RQ2?). Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Failure is not an option, it's integral to the o/s. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:47:32 -0000 From: Ashley Munday Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Western Islands Get thee to a Gloranthan digest! Ash -----Original Message----- From: thomas merring [mailto:tgfang@zianet.com] Sent: 08 February 1999 23:47 To: runequest-rules@MPGN.COM Subject: [RQ-RULES] Western Islands I can't find information on the inhabitants of the various islands West of Genertela (in my boxed set). does anybody know what's "supposed to be" there? Tom Merring *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:47:32 -0000 From: Ashley Munday Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] The Grimoire Phil he say: "I always thought Venom should take effect 3 MR later..." In the example of play in the "Players Notes" Venom occurs the SR it hits the target. Ash *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:13:03 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Western Islands > > While this might be somewhat of a digest crossover - I think you find > > a small selection of Brithini left over from the dissappearance of > > Brithos, Ygg Islanders (think Vikings) so you have Wolf Pirates as > > well, probably Vadeli, and further West you find Luatha. > > Nikk E. > Ah. As it happens, i was thinking Vikings. The Ygg Islands looked > like a nice place to plop them down, especially with the convenient coast > near at hand to raid or trade. > Tom Merring That's exactly what Greg had in mind for the Ygg Islands. They are the Wolf Pirates, Vikings in disguise, who were taken over by Harrak the Berserk between 1615 and 1620. Harrak increased the range of their forays all the way to the Mirrorsea Bay, sets up a base camp in the left arm islands, and eventually leads several ships around the Homeward Ocean. Bob Stancliff (stanclif@ufl.edu) http://commnections.com/upgrades *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:25:08 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Ogres as PCs > But Gloranthan ogres can be humans who indulged in cannibalism, and > transformed, in the same way that they could have become a broo if they had > raped. (Not all suffer this fate, only the very worst and persistent > offenders). I know, that's Gloranthan, but my grandmother used to believe > that the crumbs in the bottom of the toaster would turn into maggots, so > transformation is a common theory, that is not confined to some mythical > past. I can see 'become ogre' or 'become broo' being on the Human Chaos Feature Chart, but this is not a change that would occur without ties to chaos. Even as the Chaos Feature Chart stands now, there is a cumulative 5% chance for a human or other race to become a broo. Rape in Glorantha doesn't change the rapist, it attracts a spirit of lust that becomes a succubi, and plagues the local populous until someone realizes, and destroys it. If the rape is followed by murder, as in 'Shadows on the Borderlands', the spirit can be quite strong. Bob Stancliff (stanclif@ufl.edu) http://commnections.com/upgrades *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:38:13 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] The Grimoire > >I thought that Multispelled spells all hit at the same moment, > >in which case the targets CON for resistance would surely > >be that *before* the Diminish CON > > So you say they should be simultaneous, then prescribe a specific order for > them? Bizarre! I'd say as they both affect simultaneously, the reduced CON > would be used. That's evidently the way Sandy interprets the rules. Besides, > I always thought Venom should take effect 3 MR later, like all other venoms > (or was that RQ2?). By saying that the Con is Diminished when the Venom spell acts, IS assigning order. When simultaneous spells hit the same target, they ignore the effects of any other spells and all act against the initial condition of the target, >as if they were the only spell cast<. Your lovely 'one, two punch' requires two steps to get the necessary target condition. While Venom implies poison, it is not actually applied as poison in the spell description... the effect should be instant. Bob Stancliff (stanclif@ufl.edu) http://commnections.com/upgrades *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:55:16 -0000 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] The Grimoire >Your lovely 'one, two punch' >requires two steps to get the necessary target condition. I'm not defeated yet! Um... Okay, let's not worry about the mechanics, lets take it from a descriptive point of view. "I cast a spell which attacks the target with poison, and simltaneously reduces their capability to resist poison". From that description, I'm pretty confident about what the outcome should be, and would feel hard done by if a referee decided against me. Remember, this is magic, not a computer program. Multispell is effectively taking two effects and combining them into one. Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Failure is not an option, it's integral to the o/s. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #29 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.