From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #40 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Friday, February 26 1999 Volume 02 : Number 040 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS RE: [RQ-RULES] Campaign styles... RE: [RQ-RULES] Campaign styles... RE: [RQ-RULES] Campaign styles [RQ-RULES] Elric List RE: [RQ-RULES] Campaign styles... [RQ-RULES] "Ages" Re: [RQ-RULES] Campaign styles Re: [RQ-RULES] RQ for Tolkien RE: [RQ-RULES] Campaign styles... Re: [RQ-RULES] Off topic- Elric Re: [RQ-RULES] "Ages" Re: [RQ-RULES] RQ for Tolkien [RQ-RULES] Paul Reilly's sorcery system meets the Ressurection spell RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:02:28 -0600 From: "Rich Allen" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Campaign styles... > > I'm working on a custom version of the sorcerery rules, based heavily on > > Paul Reilly's (somewhat incomplete) rules. That's why I'm asking. Here's a > > few examples so you know what I'm asking... > > I'm sure there's not a few of us who'd be interested in seeing your > finished product... Oh great, now I'm under pressure to finish them and make them presentable to the general public!! Rich Allen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:06:33 -0600 From: "Rich Allen" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Campaign styles... > In my current game several of the characters are rune level. It's If you don't mind me asking, how does a typical night's session go in your campaign? Are all of your players sitting at the table every session, twiddling their thumbs while you take care of each character one at a time, or do they as a group put individual duties aside while they concentrate on just one character's goals? From your description, it seems like none of the characters actually "hang out" together, and I'm curious as to how you handle this. I admit, I'm an "adventuring company" kind of guy. Both of our games have a group of adventurers, neither of which is based out of a city. One group (in which I play) has a very small castle on the coast of Griffin Island, and the other group (that I GM) lives on a ship they sail from port to port looking for adventures. Neither of these situations makes it easy, or even possible, to run sorcerers, shamans, and priests under the rules as published. But I don't see why that has to be! Rich Allen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:10:37 -0600 From: "Rich Allen" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Campaign styles > My sorceror character was an apprentice when he started, but his duties to > his master were to go on a long missions to study magic in foreign lands. > This meant that he could effectively spend all his time > adventuring, but he > didn't have the support of his master or his home guild. Who was teaching him while he was out adventuring? The important skills for a sorcerer cannot be increased through experience, only through training and study. Hmm, maybe I need to look at this as an area my sorcery rules can help. Does anyone think it's a good idea to allow experience checks for the various Lores and the sorcery skills? Rich Allen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 22:26:07 -0000 From: "Tom Zunder" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Elric List OK Dear ole IO have shut down the old eternal-l list. New one to follow very shortly. :-( *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:34:15 -0600 From: Jim Gould Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Campaign styles... At 03:58 PM 2/25/99 -0600, Rich Allen wrote: >> >An apprentice sorcerer must spend 90% of each year performing >> >duties and studying under his master. > Is anyone (who is not currently using Sandy's rules) playing or GMing a >game with sorcerers? If so, how did they become adepts? Was it a fudge of >the char gen rules? Did you just add a bunch more years to the starting >age? These are the answers I'm looking for. > >Rich Allen This may not be the answer you're looking for, but I run a game with one apprentice sorcerer. I deal with the 90% restriction by ignoring it, rationalizing that the apprentice's master decided that his training was best served by going out into the world for a while. The subtext of this was that the master decided the apprentice was too annoying to put up with full-time until he got a few corners banged off. This does mean that the apprentice isn't getting any benefit from the master until his return in terms of training, etc., but the player is not exceedingly bothered by this. I don't think he knows just how much he'll owe his master when he gets back ... Mainly, I ignore those restrictions with cripple MGF. I think the 90% restriction is one of them. If apprentices want to suck up to their masters 90% of the time, that's fine, but IMG they usually have the freedom to get extended sabbaticals whence they eschew the benefits of apprenticeship. "Dammit" Jim Gould jgould@io.com http:\\www.io.com\~jgould http:\\www.britanniamanor.org Two bits, four bits, six bits a peso, all for Xenu stand up and say so! (www.xenu.net) Utinam barbari spatium proprium tuum invadant! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:15:45 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: [RQ-RULES] "Ages" The general run of human "ages", as I was taught them: Paleolithic\ Mesolithic |--together making up the "stone age" Neolithic / Copper Bronze Iron Ancient/Classical Dark High Feudal (with Dark, combine to be "Middle Ages") Renaissance Modern (ending somewhere after WWI or WWII, depending on who you talk to) Post Modern The "primitive" cultures of Glorantha technically aren't even Bronze Age. They're Neolithic with access to external metal sources. However, rumor has it that they have various methods of working "bone" to compensate, which pretty much makes them closer to Copper Age. However, the social structures of Glorantha are much closer to those found in the Iron Age and the Classical world than to those found in the Bronze Age. The thing is that the dominant metal is called "bronze" in the game, so people PRESUME that it's "bronze age". Even the Gauls who fought against Caesar and the Germans who attacked Rome were at the very least Iron Age. As for using "Byzantine" to describe the Malkioni, "Byzantine" was for nearly 1000 years, and it was nowhere near as stagnant as Latinist propaganda has had us believe. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 00:49:59 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Campaign styles Rich Allen wrote: > > and study. Hmm, maybe I need to look at this as an area my sorcery rules > can help. Does anyone think it's a good idea to allow experience checks for > the various Lores and the sorcery skills? In SS, most of the sorcery skills are trainable by experience (when not something that needs to be sacrified for). - -- talmeta@bellatlantic.net - Heretic & Dilettante ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta1 Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:22:49 +0100 From: "Terje Tollisen" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] RQ for Tolkien I really do believe there are spells in ME, but that it is rare, maybe restricted to Maiar, Valar and a few of the Elves. For this one could basically use parts of the RQ magic systems; I would think some sorcery rules would be most suitable. Or maybe use some heroquest magic? The reason why I say there are spells, is because spells are mentioned in Lord of the Rings. I don't have a copy here, but when the fellowship is attacked by the orcs in Moria they run out a door, and Gandalf seal it. Later on he says that he felt a terrible counter spell trying to brake his seal. This is a spell cast by the balrog of course. Just remember, if one uses the Wizards (Gandalf the Gray, Saurmann and so on) they do not have access to all their potential power. Gandalf the White and Saurmann after he became evil might be able to use all their powers. - -Terje Tollisen "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway." -Tanenbaum ********************* Terje Tollisen Kjelsåsveien 99 0491 OSLO Tlf. 22153817 P.søk 96867204 ********************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:41:04 +0100 From: "Terje Tollisen" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Campaign styles... Rich Allen: >..... Neither of these situations makes it easy, or even > possible, to run sorcerers, shamans, and priests under the rules as > published. But I don't see why that has to be! I a shaman in my game. We made him with 10 years of experience and he qualified for shaman. As we started the game, his father was very much alive, and since his village was quite small his father could handle the shamanic duties fine by him selves. So the shaman left with some of his friends to see the world. It says a shaman has to use 50%? or 90%? of his time to do his duties. But since this guy has no people to attend to, he effectively has no duties. - -Terje Tollisen "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway." -Tanenbaum ********************* Terje Tollisen Kjelsåsveien 99 0491 OSLO Tlf. 22153817 P.søk 96867204 ********************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:01:47 GMT From: simonh@msi-uk.com (Simon Hibbs) Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Off topic- Elric Paul Stolar : >1. Why was there no map with the Elric rules? I used mine from Stormbringer >rules. There is. It's a one-page black and white map on a left hand page, fairly early on in the rules. It's in the section describing the world and it's history before you get to the rules propper. >2. I see a lot of differences in maps, nations moving around etc. Is there >an 'official' map. Look at any two middle ages maps. The ones of the Young Kingdoms are practicaly identical in comparrison. If you want to do more detailed maps for your own campaign, bring it on! One way to do this is to give the characters a magical map, perhaps it's actualy a bound demon who's need is to have an extra geographic detail added once per week? >3. Do y'all find the d10 experience too much? I decided to pare that back to >d6 but slightly more opportunities. Whatever works for you. Elric skill values are more open ended than in RQ3 (for comparrison), so I don't see it as a problem. The average increase is ony 5%, which is the same as RQ2. (Ok, it's 5.5%, before some pedant jumps in). For what it's worth, I actualy use the Elric core rules for Glorantha instead of RQ3, but using RQ3 magic and some skills. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:09:30 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] "Ages" > The general run of human "ages", as I was taught them: > Paleolithic\ > Mesolithic |--together making up the "stone age" > Neolithic / > Copper > Bronze > Iron > Ancient/Classical > Dark > High Feudal (with Dark, combine to be "Middle Ages") > Renaissance > Modern (ending somewhere after WWI or WWII, depending on who you talk to) > Post Modern Most people don't have this much awareness of historic periods. Several of these tend to be run together by people who have not studied the subject. > which pretty much makes them closer to Copper Age. That's a good place to start them. > However, the social structures of Glorantha are much closer to those > found in the Iron Age and the Classical world than to those found in the > Bronze Age. The thing is that the dominant metal is called "bronze" in > the game, so people PRESUME that it's "bronze age". Even the Gauls who > fought against Caesar and the Germans who attacked Rome were at the very > least Iron Age. The background materials claim that if Iron was more plentiful, then the leading cultures would be Iron Age instead of Bronze Age. A sociologist might not appreciate this distinction since he would be looking at the way the people live more than which metal is most common. Iron only exists for the richest people, but it does exist and is used in warfare. > As for using "Byzantine" to describe the Malkioni, "Byzantine" was for > nearly 1000 years, and it was nowhere near as stagnant as Latinist > propaganda has had us believe. To keep them in a comparable historical reference to the rest of the world, especially to the Lunars, whom I view as Romans, I strongly prefer describing them as Persian; they have natural Islamic (or Zoroastran?) traits that make it a better cultural touchstone. Bob Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:24:57 +0100 From: "Terje Tollisen" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] RQ for Tolkien Before making a system for magic for RQ in ME, it might be a good idea to read this page: http://www.users.cts.com/king/e/erikt/tolkien/magictxt.htm This guy obviously have access to Tolkiens letters, ans has written an essay on magic in ME. - -Terje Tollisen "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway." -Tanenbaum ********************* Terje Tollisen Kjelsaasveien 99 0491 OSLO Norway ********************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 17:37:52 GMT From: "Nikk Effingham" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Paul Reilly's sorcery system meets the Ressurection spell Whilst this might not be the best time for starting a discussion (I'm not here this weekend) I will anyhow. I'm quite willing to discuss Paul's alternative sorcery system, even if it hasn't been looked at in nigh over 6 years... I assume most people have a coopy, or can lay their hands on one. If not, should I repost my version to the rq rules digest if, indeed, anyone sees fit to discuss it. THE VESSEL I always wondered about this - the major device of Pauls system. It seemed very "fetch like" to have the power of a sorceror to reside mainly in another item. Especially in the way that POW was devoted to it. One very important feature is where it talks about how the vessel need not be another item but can be, instead just awaken themselves: > Trained sorcerers learn to Awaken the Higher (or Deeper) Magic. >When this happens our Apprentices will attempt to construct a Staff >or Wand to house their magic. This allows us to bind and control >the power which otherwise might run dangerously wild. Certain holy >men seem to need no Staff to perform the Higher Magic, instead they >find that a Holy Guardian Angel assists them. If you were to use this system you would either need an incentive to make sorcerors use items, or make restrictiosn on which sorcerors find a "holy Guardian Angel" either by restricting it to cultures or giving strict definitions of what a holy man is. Possibly it may require some form of HeroQuest. Certainly this "angel" seems more like a fetch than it should do. Personally I would replace the POW sacrificing system to increase the power of the Vessel with something different. Perhaps individual for each culture, so that a Vadeli can increase their Vessel by sacirificing people to it (ditto for Vivamorti), or perhaps a variant on Sandy's Vows, or maybe it just increases it capacity for Maintaining spells by one point every Sacred Time. This would move away from the fetch-model of shamanism and allow you to individualise your sorcerors. I always liked the idea of Wizard Knights of Losklam using swords as vessels. Very Gloranthan. The powers of the vessel were: >1. Invested POW can act as normal POW, holding Magic Points equal >to itself and regenerating once per day. and >3. Invested POW not used for other purposes may strengthen the >magical offense and defense of the sorcerer. Again, too close to the fetch model. And not very sorcerous neither. It does make the Sorcery Pool a very powerful device, more pwoerful than it perhaps ought to be. >2. Invested POW can be left on a spell to stabilize it. This >requires one point per point of intensity in the spell. It can be >used top maintain such spells as Sense Projection or Telepathy which >require conscious attention to use; in this case the spell remains >dormant until the sorcerer returns his attention to the spell. The >point of Presence used to maintain a spell is not available to the >sorcerer for other uses such as shaping spells. This was, of course, the heart of the sytem and the idea of a vessel as a whole. This bit I liked. Somewhat. Firstly, it is VERY costly. To permanently maintain a simple Damage Boost 5 costs 5 POW, permanently gone, the equivalent of 5 strengthening enchantments... Of course this is balanced up by the fact that you can chop and change spells. And I think it should be limited by not the intensity but the highest level of manipulation used in the spell so that you don't have any low intensity high mulitspell dweomers. But this means that you are combining Durated spells with Maintained spells, not something I am overly fond of doing. But if it works for you then go for it. I think I was all for the alternative rule of: >For every (Duration Skill / 10) points of Intensity in the spell, >the sorcerer must leave one point of his SP committed to the spell >in order to maintain it. From what I could gather (and I might be wrong) your Duration skill limited how long the spell could be Maintained for - albeit that you Maintained it for weeks and weeks even with low Duration skill. I'm not sure if this is such a good idea, after all this isn't going to much of a hassle to a wizard, to recast the spell every five weeks or so so you may as well just drop the need to do so. Instead, I would recommend that, to ensure that Maintained spells aren't overly powerful (remember if you don't need to use Duration you can use all that extra manipulation on Intensity) you introduce the Maintain manipulation skill. When casting a spell to be maintained you require as many levels of Maintain as there are in the highest level of manipulation in the spell. Duration is not required, Maintained spells last until dispelled or the sorceror wishes to end them. He must be in contact with the Vessel to end them. So a sorceror casting a Boost STR spell to be maintained on himself and his companions and casts it at Intesnity 4, Multispell 6 would require Maintain 6 to be used in conjunction with it. TASK MAGIC, AND MISC Reintroducing this back into RuneQuest wasn't such a good idea for RQIV IMO, of course YGMV but I think that disregarding Task magic is a good idea, far simpler and in line with RQIII. The fumble chart was a bit contrived, I like my games to run nice and smoothly and never found a problem with the effects of spell criticals and fumbles etc... working as they were descirbed in the original rules. All IMO, Nikk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #40 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.