From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #75 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Sunday, April 25 1999 Volume 02 : Number 075 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] Bladesharp and Experience [RQ-RULES] Re: Combat and riding [RQ-RULES] RE: Double Bonus? Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #73 [RQ-RULES] Off Topic: Glorantha Re: [RQ-RULES] Bladesharp and Experience Re: [RQ-RULES] Bladesharp and Experience Re: [RQ-RULES] Bladesharp and Experience RE: [RQ-RULES] Mounted Combat Compromise RE: [RQ-RULES] Bladesharp and Experience Re: [RQ-RULES] RuneQuest Rules [RQ-RULES] RQ Web Page [RQ-RULES] My character sheets Re: [RQ-RULES] Mounted Combat Compromise RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:15:55 -0500 From: "Paul Stolar" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Bladesharp and Experience I have always played that they only get experience if they roll under their natural skill. - -----Original Message----- From: Hibbs, Philip To: 'RQ Rules Digest' Date: Friday, April 23, 1999 10:01 AM Subject: [RQ-RULES] Bladesharp and Experience >If a character has base chance with a sword, eg. 25 + 5 for cat mod, and >they have Bladesharp 6 cast on their sword, they have 60% chance to hit, >instead of 30. If they roll, say, 50 in combat, and score a hit, should they >get an experience check? If so, what is their chance of learning from the >check? > >I'm after opinions here, I don't think the rules have anything to say. > >Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let >alone those of any organisations, nations, species, >or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. >http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ >Failure is not an option, it's integral to the o/s. > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 16:40:34 +0100 From: simonh@msi-uk.com (Simon Hibbs) Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: Combat and riding Pete Nash (Whom I generaly agree with) : >In fact, if you look at riding in the real world, the _most_ difficult >riding skill is to control a horse in combat. (keeping your seat, >dressage manouvers and jumping whilst out of combat are all far easier >than making the horse do these things under combat pressure)... This is true, but is it a seperate skill? I think not. Target shooting with an automatic rifle on a range is a lot easier than shooting bad guys in actual combat. Does this mean that characters should have two shooting skills? One which only rises when they're practicing shooting and another for when they're actualy shooting people? If so, why did I spend so many days on ranges up and down the country when I was in the army? Didn't the instructors realise we were all wasting our time? Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:39:45 -0400 From: "Loren Miller" Subject: [RQ-RULES] RE: Double Bonus? simonh@msi-uk.com (Simon Hibbs) sez: > Loren Miller > > >I'd say yes because I believe the magic is on the weapon. > > What did you think I meant when I said : > > " I assume that the Bladesharp to hit bonus is because the weapon becomes > magicaly easy to use,..." As Simon pointed out, my actual meaning was that "the magic is on the weapon, and what it does it to make the weapon twist and dance when wielded, darting towards vulnerable spots in the opponent's defenses, beating twice instead of once, adding additional feints into every attack, etc." Thus the magic makes the weapon, not the wielder, more effective. > Perhaps the weapon is magicaly drawn towards > weaknesses in the opponent's defences. As it approaches the > opponent's body > it seems to leap towards exposed flesh, as though it were magneticaly > attracted to his body. This way each attack would get the same bonus. Ah, a beautiful description of what I meant. If you read the stories about magical swords, such as the Elric books, you'll find out that this is exactly what those swords do. For my money, bladesharp is how you temporarily turn your sword into a magical sword. - -- +++++++++++++++++++++++23 Loren Miller "If men cease to believe that they will one day become gods then they will surely become worms." --Henry Miller, _The Colossus of Maroussi_ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:07:18 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #73 > The idea being argued between Dom and Rich about whether the Riding > skill should be a cap to the mounted combat skill is a thorny one. ... > In fact, if you look at riding in the real world, the _most_ difficult > riding skill is to control a horse in combat. (keeping your seat, > dressage manouvers and jumping whilst out of combat are all far easier > than making the horse do these things under combat pressure) Riding is the control of an animal in all settings, including combat. Modifier/penalties should be assessed as necessary to reflect the attempted action. This is a fundamental premise of the RQ skill system. Another is that if you have modifying skills to an action, a single roll is made which must be less than the lowest skill. I admit that as a Champions player, I prefer rolling modifying skills separately and giving bonuses to the main skill. Maybe the best solution is to penalize all weapon use from a mount or make it proportional to the Ride skill. Bob Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:07:53 -0500 From: "Guy Hoyle" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Off Topic: Glorantha |Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:00:34 -0500 |From: "Paul Stolar" |Subject: [RQ-RULES] Off Topic: Glorantha | |I have tried several times to resubscribe to the Glorantha list to no avail. |Would someone who is on that list write to the list owner and find out how |we can resubscribe. Send email to glorantha-digest-request@chaosium.com , with "subscribe" in the body. - --_ Guy Hoyle (ghoyle1@airmail.net) At first I thought, "Mind control satellites? No way!" But now I can't remember how we lived without them. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:20:43 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Bladesharp and Experience > From: Hibbs, Philip > I have always played that they only get experience if they roll under their > natural skill. Wow, I think that you are the first person I ever met who played this way. > >If a character has base chance with a sword, eg. 25 + 5 for cat mod, and > >they have Bladesharp 6 cast on their sword, they have 60% chance to hit, > >instead of 30. If they roll, say, 50 in combat, and score a hit, should they > >get an experience check? If so, what is their chance of learning from the > >check? > > > >I'm after opinions here, I don't think the rules have anything to say. This is one of the biggest reasons I have had for disliking the logic of the RQ experience system. It does allow you to stack modifiers to get a hit, take the check, and test experience at the lower, original skill. Forcing the roll to be under the base skill, as suggested above, is a solution, but in a more general sense, I dislike learning from successes instead of failures. People who are right the first time, almost never get better in real life, while those who fail have plenty of material to study for improvements. Bob Stancliff (stanclif@ufl.edu) http://commnections.com/upgrades *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:09:13 GMT From: mikec@room3b.demon.co.uk (Michael Cule) Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Bladesharp and Experience In message <017DD95F5D17D21189FF0008C728E305DA14E1@TNT_SERVER_25> "Hibbs, Philip" writes: > If a character has base chance with a sword, eg. 25 + 5 for cat mod, and > they have Bladesharp 6 cast on their sword, they have 60% chance to hit, > instead of 30. If they roll, say, 50 in combat, and score a hit, should they > get an experience check? If so, what is their chance of learning from the > check? I've always played it so. Yes, you get a tick even if you used magical enhancement. Really because otherwise it increases the amount of things to keep track of in combat and therefore slows it down. One exception. Any of the 'can't miss' spells that give you a 100% attack (mostly for one blow) cancel any tick for that blow. - -- Michael Cule Actor And Genius AKA Theophilus Prince Archbishop Of The Far Isles Medieval Society Arms Purpure An Open Book Proper: On the Dexter Page an Alpha Or On the Sinister an Omega Or. Motto Nulla Spes Sit in Resistendo (Resistance is Useless). Ask me about the Far Isles: Better Living through Pan-Medieval Anachronisms. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:38:19 -0400 From: "Weihe, David" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Bladesharp and Experience From: "Paul Stolar" > From: "Hibbs, Philip" > > If a character has base chance with a sword, eg. 25 + 5 for cat mod, and > > they have Bladesharp 6 cast on their sword, they have 60% chance to hit, > > instead of 30. If they roll, say, 50 in combat, and score a hit, should they > > get an experience check? If so, what is their chance of learning from the > > check? >> > > I'm after opinions here, I don't think the rules have anything to say. > > I have always played that they only get experience if they roll under > their natural skill. Same here. However, if the "natural" skill level is improved by a stat-modifying spell, like a 4 pt Strength spell, without a Weapon-better spell (to go GodLearner on the class of Bladesharp, IronHand, etc), then the skill check is made for the skill as affected. Getting the Stat-enhancer spells is, of course, more difficult than the usual spell, and thus gives me more scenario hooks as the characters go to find them, or to get social kudos so that they are given them by those who control them. After all, if their effect was made permanent by training the Stat, it would be allowed to contribute to the skill check point *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:15:09 -0500 From: "Rich Allen" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Mounted Combat Compromise > It seems peculiar to me to treat the bog standard ride skill as the Forgive my ignorance, what's a bog standard? > Utterly spurious and irrelevent to the point. Dressage and polo are > literaly the same skills as used in combat. That's what they were > developed for. Oratory and dance are obviously different media of > communication as much as oratory and painting are. The fact that they > can be combined is independent of their basic nature. While a bit oversimplified, I stand by my example. Is there a skill for dancing in RuneQuest? Should a native tribe with little to no spoken language use orate for telling the rest of the tribe how the latest hunt went via dance? If so, should they also use Orate when they want to perform a complicated dance that had no meaning other than the pleasure of it? Dancing for communication and dancing for pleasure are very similar, but skill in one does not mean automatic skill in the other! I admit it, I'm not an expert on mounted combat, but then I imagine neither are 75% of any other RPG player. I just don't see the connection with hitting a small ball on the ground with a mallet and fighting hand to hand while sitting on a horse. Once again, the skills are very similar, but experience in one does not mean skill in the other. An example of why I don't like the ride penalty rule: Two riders meet in hand to hand combat. Rider A has spent his whole life mounted, has a ride skill of 80% and a sword attack skill of 75%, but HAS NEVER BEEN IN A MOUNTED COMBAT BEFORE IN HIS LIFE. Rider B was a foot soldier, recently promoted to cavalry. He has a sword attack of 90%, but his ride skill is 50%, even though every bit of that ride skill was earned by mounted combat practice and experience. Rider A is still 75% with his sword, but Rider B is now fighting at 50%, despite the fact that he has by far the greater experience! I agree that you can't just throw in an extra skill to fix this; frankly I'm not convinced the best answer has been offered yet. > What you're trying to argue is like saying that the sport of fencing > has nothing whatever to do with fighting with swords. Then why is it that an individual with 90% skill in broadsword can't pick up a Rapier and fight at %90 with it? He can't! I'm not argueing that the two skills have nothing to do with one another, where have I ever said that? In RQ3, however, the two skills ARE different, and must be improved upon seperately. Rich Allen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:15:12 -0500 From: "Rich Allen" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Bladesharp and Experience > If a character has base chance with a sword, eg. 25 + 5 for cat mod, and > they have Bladesharp 6 cast on their sword, they have 60% chance to hit, > instead of 30. If they roll, say, 50 in combat, and score a hit, > should they > get an experience check? If so, what is their chance of learning from the > check? I wouldn't give ANY character a checkmark for rolling a 50%, but I see your point, and I would require that if a roll would not have qualified for a checkmark before the magic was applied, no check mark should be awarded. Rich Allen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 22:55:42 EDT From: SirVishal@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] RuneQuest Rules In a message dated 4/9/99 10:00:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, talmeta@cybercomm.net writes: > > Does anyone have an electronic copy of the RuneQuest Rules? I was told > that > > several versions have been passed around and I would like to obtain one. > If > > you do, please send it to the following E-mail address: > > This begs the question: which version? > > I know there are at least 2 different versions of RQ4 out there, but > nothing of 1, 2 or 3. One of the versions of RQ4. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 15:06:27 +0200 From: Julian Lord Subject: [RQ-RULES] RQ Web Page In case anyone's interested, my own version of Vinga is up at : http://perso.wanadoo.fr/runelord/runelord/runelord.htm *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 15:40:05 -0500 From: "Rich Allen" Subject: [RQ-RULES] My character sheets I've made my character sheets available on the Runequest section of my web site. http://www.mindspring.com/~rico These sheets are in Word97 format, scanned and free of viruses. I've zipped them up individually, so you can scan them yourselves if you're not confident of the abilities of Norton's AV 5.0. Rich Allen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 08:56:38 +0100 From: "Dom Twist" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Mounted Combat Compromise > While a bit oversimplified, I stand by my example. Is there a skill for >dancing in RuneQuest? Should a native tribe with little to no spoken >language use orate for telling the rest of the tribe how the latest hunt >went via dance? If so, should they also use Orate when they want to perform >a complicated dance that had no meaning other than the pleasure of it? >Dancing for communication and dancing for pleasure are very similar, but >skill in one does not mean automatic skill in the other! I would use art/craft dance. Or add in a new communication skill if it was a really major campaign element. But I would try as hard as possible to avoid adding in a new skill. Simplicity. > An example of why I don't like the ride penalty rule: Two riders meet in >hand to hand combat. Rider A has spent his whole life mounted, has a ride >skill of 80% and a sword attack skill of 75%, but HAS NEVER BEEN IN A >MOUNTED COMBAT BEFORE IN HIS LIFE. Rider B was a foot soldier, recently >promoted to cavalry. He has a sword attack of 90%, but his ride skill is >50%, even though every bit of that ride skill was earned by mounted combat >practice and experience. > Rider A is still 75% with his sword, but Rider B is now fighting at 50%, >despite the fact that he has by far the greater experience! > I agree that you can't just throw in an extra skill to fix this; frankly >I'm not convinced the best answer has been offered yet. I agree. However if someone has spent thier whole life mounted......how in heck did they get a 75% sword skill without fighting from horseback? Ok Ok I'm taking you a bit to lit there, but still and all a Rider will have fought from horseback a fair bit in your average RQ world. Most of 'em (Worlds that is) are quite realistic. The Purpose of Horses wasnt transport. They were weapons. A fact that the RQ damage bonus and height advantages represents quite well. Oh and as too the 'knocking a ball around' having nothing to do with combat, you are aware that polo is still sometimes played with a human head as the ball in Afganistan where it was invented arnt you? The brits brought it back and civilised the game a bit, but it's still basicaly acuracy training and horse control practise for light cavalry. DT *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #75 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.