From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #85 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Friday, May 14 1999 Volume 02 : Number 085 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS [RQ-RULES] Re: Rune Level POW Question Re: [RQ-RULES] Rune Level POW Question RE: [RQ-RULES] Rune Level POW Question Re: [RQ-RULES] Rune Level POW Question [RQ-RULES] Off topic RE: [RQ-RULES] Rune Level POW Question RE: [RQ-RULES] Off topic RE: [RQ-RULES] Off topic Re: [RQ-RULES] Rune Level POW Question RE: [RQ-RULES] Rune Level POW Question Re: [RQ-RULES] Rune Level POW Question [RQ-RULES] Divine Intervention Re: [RQ-RULES] Divine Intervention Re: [RQ-RULES] Rune Level POW Question RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 15:09:33 -0400 From: David Weihe Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: Rune Level POW Question > From: simonh@msi-uk.com (Simon Hibbs) > I've got mixed feelings about this. The problem for me is that this isn't > the way divine intervention seems to work in real world myths. Which ones? I can think of Divine Interventions that seem to allow every sort of request and/or aid, although some are more likely granted than others. > Using Div Ints as an artificial deus > ex machina is IMO far too common. I was recently in a game where a Humakti > Div Int-ed to save another character's life (Duh!). > > "I'll just appeal to the Lord of Death to weaken the power of Death > in the world, Stanley." IIRC, Humakt has received a few nasty wounds which would kill any lesser being, so granting a measure of His vigor isn't out of the question, or giving the asking PC a temporary increase in First Aid skills to let him save the character personally; asking a God to stay His hand is hardly unknown. Equally likely, though, is Humakt breaking the asker's sword for blasphemy, then or in the next battle. Adding the suitability of the request to the power requirements is also reasonable, so maybe Humakt trades the asker's life for the downed PC. Also, a successful DI should mark a character, so that he stumbles into friendly and enemy Heroquests far more often than reasonable, thereafter. Eventually, his/her less powerful associates begin avoiding him to keep their lives sane and safe. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 15:18:49 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Rune Level POW Question > > Well, which is worse, not giving DI at all, or giving a priest DI while > > knowing that it will remove his priesthood until he recovers the POW. > > Keeping the priest alive is clearly the best for the temple; a trained > > Accolyte is a valuable asset, even if forced back to Initiate status. > > Bob > > I've got mixed feelings about this. The problem for me is that this isn't > the way divine intervention seems to work in real world myths. On the other > hand there should certainly be some kind of cost, or game system limit > which prevents characters from abusing divine interventions. There are more than enough pulp fantasy books where something close to Deus ex Machina does save the day. D.I. absolutely should reflect the powers that the god has to give in the first place: don't expect Heal Body unless you worship Ernalda or Chalana Arroy, certainly don't expect it from Humakt or Orlanth. The best way to remove D.I. from the game is to go to a Rune Point system and replace D.I. with a desperation spell cast at the last second. It could cast as many Rune spells as possible or necessary to attempt a favorable effect while using the spell list of the god (possibly with associated cult spells as well). If none of the god's spells can save the day, then you will have to hope that your allies can resurrect you. This should probably be restricted to your available Rune points, although you might let it burn into available POW as well. It should always be restricted to the runic powers of the god although room should be left for rituals that call on the god to place special powers into an enchantment so that one-of-a-kind items can be made (possibly requiring a Special on the enchantment roll). It could be more flexible than the old D.I. by letting the spell effects help allies that are not worshippers of the god since the person making the call or sacrifice is the 'source' of the spell's casting. This system would be very favorable to large cults that get all Common Divine spells. Small Chaos cults would have trouble finding useful effects at short notice. It would also stop the rape of a character's POW for a simple effect that could have been achieved for 3 or 4 points of divine magic. By restricting it to Rune points, you encourage players to have slightly lower POW's and more Rune points sacrificed to their god. Rune points would change all of the rules dealing with necessary temple sizes to get divine magic, but those rules have been a pain in the ass for years anyway. Rune points could be gained at any shrine or better and specific spells would never have to be learned, or you could say that Special Divine Rune points can be gained at a shrine, Common Divine Rune points at a minor temple, and Associated Divine Rune points at a major temple, and the more difficult points could be used for simpler spell effects, but not the other way around. Bob Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 09:26:53 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Rune Level POW Question >I was recently in a game where a Humakti >Div Int-ed to save another character's life (Duh!). Later in the same game, we had just about dealt with a Fiend of Cacodemon (my shaman was posessing a giant at the time, and thumped it) and the referee tried to pull a real fast one - the Fiend tried to Div Int to summon another Fiend! Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Failure is not an option, it's integral to the o/s. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 10:39:17 EDT From: IssariesGT@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Rune Level POW Question In a message dated 5/14/99 1:46:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time, philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk writes: << Later in the same game, we had just about dealt with a Fiend of Cacodemon (my shaman was posessing a giant at the time, and thumped it) and the referee tried to pull a real fast one - the Fiend tried to Div Int to summon another Fiend! >> The rules work for the opposition also. I'd allow it. It's just debatable at what lvel are Fiends, inititiate or rune level. kes *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 09:54:53 -0500 From: "Paul Stolar" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Off topic When did the last Glorantha digest come out.? I was receiving it for a few weeks and it stopped again. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:48:42 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Rune Level POW Question >>the Fiend tried to Div Int to summon >>another Fiend! >> >The rules work for the opposition also. I'd allow it. It's just >debatable at what lvel are Fiends, inititiate or rune level. But... but... but... it had a POW of 35! Another reason is that the Fiend has no personal interest at stake - its life is not threatened, and its worshippers had all been stood or sat on already, would it sacrifice its POW? Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Failure is not an option, it's integral to the o/s. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:57:53 +0100 From: "Ashley Munday" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Off topic Paul wanted to know... "When did the last Glorantha digest come out.? I was receiving it for a few weeks and it stopped again." I got a couple today with a couple of erudite messages from Simon H and myself. Ah, what a treat you've missed.... Ash *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:54:26 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Off topic >When did the last Glorantha digest come out.? Last night at 22:40 Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Failure is not an option, it's integral to the o/s. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 11:25:13 EDT From: IssariesGT@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Rune Level POW Question In a message dated 5/14/99 8:08:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk writes: << >>the Fiend tried to Div Int to summon >>another Fiend! >> >The rules work for the opposition also. I'd allow it. It's just >debatable at what lvel are Fiends, inititiate or rune level. But... but... but... it had a POW of 35! Another reason is that the Fiend has no personal interest at stake - its life is not threatened, and its worshippers had all been stood or sat on already, would it sacrifice its POW? >> I guess a POW of 35 would indicate it would be rune level then. No personal interest, you were trying to kill, or at the very least banish the darn thing. It only gets to kill and rampage infrequently. You were interupting its holiday. I've seen some pretty irate vacationers... I was just one, went to NY, NY, it was fogges in....Oh but that's another stoy for another day. kes *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 17:35:34 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Rune Level POW Question >No personal interest, you were trying to kill, or at the very least >banish the darn thing. It only gets to kill and rampage infrequently. Would it risk an average POW loss of 17? That's a hefty price to pay for a bit of fun! What if it rolled 30? Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Failure is not an option, it's integral to the o/s. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 14:46:00 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Rune Level POW Question > Where does this come from? 2nd ed. rules had minimum POW requirements > for Rune levels, but the third addition rules don't. I haven't read the > 4th in great detail, but I would have thought I'd have noticed that. No, the original question that started this was someone still using aspects of RQ2. > And I can see the argument in limiting the cost of DI in > proportion to the effect sought; but then virtually all calls for DI > would cost no more than 3 POW pts, since this is the cost of Resurrect. But if damage killed the body, then it has to be healed also, which requires several Heal Wounds or a Heal Body besides Resurrect, and Teleporting a party can be expensive. > The advantage of not changing the mechanics of DI would be that the > current system limits the ability of the gods to monkey with the game so > much that it wreaks the integrity of the world construct, and makes it > costly enough (and dangerous enough) that no one is likely to abuse the > priveledge. I am offended by the randomness and lack of causality between price and effect. The question of worthiness is related and important also. Weakening the effect allows it to be made more predictable and common without severe unbalancing. There should be some extra penalty for not using the normal spell system (such as added cost or double cost) due to the demand for immediate response and the bypassing of the melee round system. It has been pointed out the Greg was unhappy with the game concept of D.I., if you died, then you died. If Rune magic is improved by Rune points, and becomes more flexible, then D.I. might be phased out or less needed. Just dropping D.I. is possible, though it will mean that more characters will need Resurrect and may miss the roll. Or the old DI spell could be returned with a high price (like 4 or 5 POW). Bob Stancliff (stanclif@ufl.edu) http://commnections.com/upgrades *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 20:22:29 GMT From: "Nikk Effingham" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Divine Intervention To make DI more like it should be, both in Glorantha or any game for that matter, I suggest using a house rule that Nils Weinander came up with. I can assure you it works very well. You cannot DI if you are an initiate or acolyte, until you _earn_ the right to. By doing boons, favours and just generally nice things for your cult you get a Divine Intervention. It works just like rune lord DI, i.e. you lose 1d10 POW. Of course, once you've used your boon you need to get another to DI, although you can gather up DI's in advance. Rune Lords get DI as normal. This lowers the chance of DI. I remember in one game a huge hand was summoned by DI that picked us up and placed us back at Hazard Fort in Dorastor. I asked the GM if they were awe inspired or shocked to see the hand of a god putting us down. He said "No, they see Divine Interventions from time to time and get used to it". It also means that every man and his dog can't DI. Also I suggest you don't let people DI after damage is dealt - so if a killing blow hits you you can DI before the damage is rolled, but not after. Ditto for spell effects. I also limit the scope of Divine Interventions, you can only ressurect members from the cult you are DIing to, only Orlanth and Mastakos teleport people around, and Storm Bull won't whizz you away from a fight etc... I would suggest that Humakti be allowed to heal other Humakti, but not general people. As for Ressurection via DI, its a perfect campaign motivator for GMs to hand out god-given quests, propheices and geases (if you died fighting trolls then a War God may geas you that whilst you can return to life you must begin some form of war or crusade against trolls). That reminds me, I have rules on Death Sickness etc... for making Ressurection and Death an unsure deal. Nikk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 12:52:16 PDT From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Divine Intervention >To make DI more like it should be, both in Glorantha or any game for >that matter, All this discussion on DI makes me wonder if maybe system similar to the one used in Elric is the answer. In that system a character has a rating/skill called elan which goes up or down based on characters actions as defined by the cult/god. Then a DI is called for it is checked against elan as a percental roll, which is then subtracted from the total elan, and not power. Although there is a correlation between the two, as I belive you can exchange elan for POW on some basis. Leon Kirshtein _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 13:56:33 -0700 From: "Jarold Davis" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Rune Level POW Question - -----Original Message----- From: Hibbs, Philip To: 'runequest-rules@mpgn.com' Date: Friday, May 14, 1999 10:02 AM Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Rune Level POW Question >>No personal interest, you were trying to kill, or at the very least >>banish the darn thing. It only gets to kill and rampage infrequently. > >Would it risk an average POW loss of 17? That's a hefty price to pay for a >bit of fun! What if it rolled 30? > A Fiend, being a demon, may well not have the same values that mortals have. It is an embodiment of chaos, after all, so perhaps a hefty POW loss from a DI in exchange for some serious carnage may be what it's in the mood for ! Also, is it initiate, acolyte, Rune Lord...I might be inclined to think of it as something akin to RL level, rather than initiate or acolyte, given its attack %'s. But again, it all needs to fit the campaign, which is going to vary. A lot. A whole lot. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #85 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. 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