From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #88 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Tuesday, May 25 1999 Volume 02 : Number 088 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] Rune points [RQ-RULES] Rune Power [RQ-RULES] Re: [RQ-Rules] Spell Lists Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: [RQ-Rules] Spell Lists Re: [RQ-RULES] Rune points RE: [RQ-RULES] Rune points [RQ-RULES] DMD - Berna for RQ/Greyhawk Re: [RQ-RULES] Rune points Re: [RQ-RULES] Rune points RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 09:52:01 +0100 From: simonh@msi-uk.com (Simon Hibbs) Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Rune points >>'cos you'd need to have rules telling you how many points >>you can get back at a temple, as related to its size, >>and to your level of initiation, instead of the old RQ3 system ... > >Maybe I'm being a bit thick (quite possible), but I still don't see why. Oops, penny dropped! I was being a bit thick. Simon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 13:06:51 +0200 From: Julian Lord Subject: [RQ-RULES] Rune Power Simon Hibbs: > >Perhaps the way I'd do it, and this is just a suggestion, > >which might be complete rubbish, is to have 2 spell lists for each > >cult; > >common magic and special magic. Common magic being those spells > >that any initiate would be aware of mythically, and require simple use > >of Rune points, once he's sacrificed for them; Special spells being > >the ones he has to perform special rituals, minor heroquests, > >arcane learning, whatever, to acquire. > > IIRC when you learn a rune spell, you have to spend one day per point > of the spell in the temple. I think during this time you're ritualy > purifying yourself and being initiated into the sacred mysteries of > the magic you are learning. You are actualy heroquesting the myth. > I think this is true of all divine magic. IMO, yes & no. Sure, that's how RQ did it, and that's the Gloranthan stuff that's attached to it; although I wonder how often it's really roleplayed, and how often it's : "I spend 6 days praying at the temple" , instead... My reasons for saying "no" would be mainly Glorantha stuff, and maybe ought to go on another list; but here goes : Once you've learned a myth, you really don't need to go and learn it again. Certainly, you'd need to spend some time in ritual space, as you suggest, to regain the magic powers, but I see a big difference between central myths, which even children would know by heart, and more peripheral, or more specialised ones, that not everyone in the culture would share. That's really why I'd separate the spells into two lists, common & special magic, in my ideal version of the Rune Points rules, although I'd also put some spells, like the rituals, as special magic for strictly RQ reasons : I don't want players to be encouraged to think that the enchantment spells are just normal spells, hence my idea that rituals shouldn't use Rune Points. I'd see common magic as being strictly run under the Rune Point system, mirroring the fact that these represent common myths, but I'm not really sure which would be the best system for special magic spells. Perhaps each of these spells would be learned & remembered as in RQ3. Perhaps they'd have separate RP tallies. Ideally, I'd like something which used the versatility of the RP system without being so complicated, or encouraging blandness among PCs. > >All cultists strive to resemble their god; > >therefore cult members resemble each other, > >giving a bland and generic appearance to these characters ... > > In the same way that all christians are bland and generic because > they are all humble, pious, impoverished wandering ex-carpenters. > > I apologise, that was rather glib, Well, I suppose my original statement was just as glib, and I apologise too ! > but I think that there is quite > a bit of variation possible. ESPECIALLY among Player Characters, and important NPCs. Yes ! I agree !! If the mass of RQ NPCs is bland and generic, well; who really cares? > There are many myths of Orlanth - Orlanth > the Just King, Orlanth the Thunderer, Orlanth the rebbel, Orlanth > the Lightbringer. That's four very different ways an Orlanthi > can resemble his god streight off the top of my head. Absolutely; I should have been clear that I'm not pointing my cookie-cutter PC-wards ... > I'd even > argue that they are seperate cults (seperate religious organisations) > worshiping the same god. AFAIK, there are; although it's also true that they are a single cult worshiping different gods. Which leads us to : Polytheism ! Under a RP system, IMO, a character should be able to get Rune Power from the various gods of his pantheon far more extensively than in the RQ Associated Cults system, although the RP would be more costly. That is, an ordinary Orlanthi warrior would have access to *any* Urox magic, although he'd have to pay through the nose, and submit to various degrading rituals at the Urox temple. IMO, it's in circumstances like these, or when learning Hero cult magics, that a character really has to spend time learning myths, praying, heroquesting, and sacrificing POW, etc ... The Rune Power system seems to be well suited for this stuff, but it still needs to be fleshed out quite a lot. Probably, we need some better idea of what Rune Power is and where it comes from. That's because this would clue us in to which sources (his main cult, associate cults, hero cults, other cults of the pantheon, ... ) a normal character's RP would come from, how expensive these various sources should be, methods for recovering RP, various special effects, rules for RP and Ritual magic, RP & PDP, & eventually RP & HW, etc. , etc. ... That is, RP shouldn't just be an abstract measure of spells known by a character, but a wider measure of his peronal relationship with divinity, and the presence of divinity within the character. This, IMO, should ideally generate subtly innovative approaches to Rune magic in RQ. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 13:39:02 +0100 From: "Dawson Ricky (RD)" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: [RQ-Rules] Spell Lists Hello there guys I was hoping you could help out a first time writer to the RQ Rules.... Is there any site or does anybody have a concise listing ofall Spirit/Divine Magic. I am currently trying to put together a complete list by taking all of the spells from my original RQ 2 sources and from the excellent (plug) TofTRM and those other fine fanzines.....but I was hoping there were otherspells out there that I may have missed out on.... Any help would be much appreciated as I'm just about to start a new campaign - sparked off by Tal Meta's ideas - using the AD&D world of greyhawk, run completely through the RQ System...... Thanks Ricky *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 11:08:54 EDT From: IssariesGT@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: [RQ-Rules] Spell Lists In a message dated 5/25/99 5:51:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Ricky.Dawson@celexa.co.uk writes: << I am currently trying to put together a complete list by taking all of the spells from my original RQ 2 sources and from the excellent (plug) TofTRM and those other fine fanzines.....but I was hoping there were otherspells out there that I may have missed out on.... >> This has already been done by Rick Meints in his MIG. kes *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 13:32:55 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Rune points > >> Bob > Rune points would change all of the rules dealing with > >> >necessary temple sizes to get divine magic,.... > >> Simon Hibbs > >> Er, I don't see why. > >Julian Lord : > >'cos you'd need to have rules telling you how many points > >you can get back at a temple, as related to its size, > >and to your level of initiation, instead of the old RQ3 system ... > Simon Hibbs > Maybe I'm being a bit thick (quite possible), but I still don't see why. OK, it's been a while since I was in this discussion but I'll follow up on my initial remark. The rules state that a shrine teaches one spell (this was changed in errata to add Worship), a minor temple adds Special Divine, a major temple adds Common Divine, and a great temple adds Associated Cult spells. The simplest Rune Point system has power being sacrificed and stored for recall later as a miracle. It can be spent on Special, Common, and Associated Cult spells. Therefore there is no distinction between worship sites beyond the question of whether POW can be sacrificed there or not. For example: 'no sacrifice at sites or shrines, any temple is OK', or 'no sacrifice at sites, but any shrine is as good as a temple'. The only way to keep the current temple size and usage rules would be to have a different flavors of Rune Points for each size shrine or temple and those points can only be used for spells that would be available at that type of temple. This would mean having Shrine RP's, Minor RP's, Major RP's, and Great RP's. Doing anything else removes any need for distinguishing temple size. A more interesting question is whether we even want temple size rules restricting spell access. When you compare temple sizes needed for major and great temple and compare them to the population figures published for Sartar and Prax, it turns out that it is almost impossible for any local temple to be more than a shrine or minor temple. Most cults cannot have more than a few scattered major temples in the entire world and great temples are effectively impossible except for extremely popular cults such as Ernalda and 7Mothers, and only then in the largest cities. If you insisted on treating 7Mothers as separate cults sharing a building, they would have the same problems as most other cults. Many minor cults such as Asrelia and Babeester Gor have Associated Cult spells listed, but there are no major or great temples for them because they are subservient cults under Ernalda, and their worship sites are inside larger Ernalda temples, so they can never get the Common and Associated spells. Other minor cults cannot arrange to get enough followers together for a major or great temple because it would require serious pilgrimages that would disrupt peoples lives for a season or more while they traveled to the site and back each year. > >That is, I believe that Rune Magic is supposed to be more flexible > >than in RQ, but less than RQ DI, and more or less like > >the Rune Power system. There's a problem in determining what > >the limits of such a system should be, but DI should be conflated > >with Rune magic. > >They're the same thing. > >Which is why Greg says that there is no DI in Glorantha, IMO. I am all in favor of collapsing Divine magic into some Rune Point system with reduced dependence on temple size for gaining spells. It will be painful to drop DI, but the game would be more appropriate for replacing DI with Rune Points. Bob Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 18:46:15 +0100 From: Ashley Munday Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Rune points Bob mentions that associate divine spells can only be regained or sacrificed for at great temples. Can't an associate worshipper of a God recover / gain associate spells in temples of the associate God? So, if Bert the Barbarian Priest wants to get his associate spell from Lankhor Mhy, all he has to do is dig up a small Lankhor Mhy temple, dive in the door, flash his "Official Member of Orlanth Thunderous" card, pay the beans and learn the spell. As for populations... Don't know much about Prax, but Boldhome has got a population of over 10,000 adults, more than enough to support a great temple to Orlanth and Ernalda. Even Duck point with 500 "people" could support a couple of small temples. Ash *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 14:47:18 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: [RQ-RULES] DMD - Berna for RQ/Greyhawk (Need I say it? None of these writeups would be possible without the excellent work of Sean Reynolds, who gave us the first Greyhawk pantheon with a solid lineage and mythology! Woo hoo! ). Gods of the Touv BERNA Runes: Harmony, Truth Berna is the goddess of Passion and Forgiveness. Cult in the World Born the third and final child of the serpent god Meyanok, Berna was once the goddess of hatred and vengence. But when her father charged her with the task of slaying the radiant Xanag, so great was her awe of that beautiful goddess that she turned away from her father and with Xanag's help, Berna's very nature was altered to encompass all strong emotions and the foregiving of wrongs. Berna's followers observe the 1st of Birthing as their High Holy Day, with additional services on the 1st day of each month. Temples to Berna are typically low stone structures adjacent to Temples of Xanag. Priestesses of Berna adopt the pelts of jungle cats as their only rainment. Lay Membership Requirements: Berna is revered by artists seeking inspiration, lovers, and healers, all of whom seek the blessings this goddess bestows. Skills taught by this cult include Dance, Dodge, Orate, Sing, Speak Languages, First Aid, Lores (Human, Olman, Touv, World), Play Instruments, Listen, Ceremony and Club attack. Initiate Membership Requirements: Applicants must have a minimum APP of 14, otherwise standard. Initiates of Berna work with neighbors, helping to smooth misunderstandings, and working to promote friendship, fellowship, and forgiveness. Initiates gain access to the following skills, as well: Spirit Combat, Spirit Lore, and Spirit Travel. Spirit Magic: Banish Spirit, Berna's Convincing Tongue (Improve Orate), Berna's Touch, Countermagic, Ease Pain, Glamour, Solace. Priesthood/Shamans Requirements: Standard for shamans. Priests of this cult are known as Forgiving Hearts, and they work tirelessly to bring all their neighbors into understanding that forgiveness brings contentment, and that a new friendship is always more valuable than an old grievance. They are also the healers of their communities, sworn to protect and nurture any who are in need of their services. Most use their shamanic abilities to drive out spirits, rather than employ healing or mentality spirits. Virtues for Berna include Altrusitic, Joyous, and Social. Common Divine Magic: all. Special Divine Magic: Berna's Gift, Bless Home, Cause Passion, Clever Tongue, Community, Courage, Heal Body, Regrow Limb, Restore Health to (STR, CON, DEX, APP), Soothing Word, Truespeak. Shamanic Taboos No Hide Soul No Self Ressurection Runic Affinities Only Associated Gods Breeka: provides Speak to Animals Xanag: provides Enchant Beauty - -- talmeta@cybercomm.net - Heretic & Dilettante ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta (note change!) Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 11:33:20 -0700 From: "Timothy Byrd" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Rune points How about saying that a shrine is as good as a temple for 'regaining' Rune Points through 'x days of prayer, etc.', but to gain the ability to cast a given Rune spell in the first place, you have to go to the correct center of worship? An example I have in mind is the Trickster cult. Bunches of tiny shrines each of which teaches one specific and obscure spell. A trickster who wants to have a range of Rune Magic has to visit each of them and go though the specific learning ritual/quest. I think the same thing should apply to Orlanth, Urox, etc, too. Someone had mentioned an Orlanthi being able to get access to more of Uroxi rune magic as an associated cult. I agree, as long as the Orlanthi has to go to the Uroxi holy place and enact the quest needed to understand how to cast the spell. Now pilgrimages start to make some sense. (So *that's* why you'd go to each Cathedral and walk the labyrinth, there...) I guess I tend to believe that while all the initiates know the myths, only the Rune levels get the Gnostic knowledge to cast rune magic based on them. And that's on a myth by myth basis. I like the 'cool' factor of sending the characters to remote holy places to learn specific spells. What if they need a certain obscure spell to complete a hero quest, and chaos has taken over the only site it can be learned? - -- Tim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 23:19:07 +0200 From: Julian Lord Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Rune points Timothy Byrd: > How about saying that a shrine is as good as a temple for 'regaining' Rune > Points through 'x days of prayer, etc.', but to gain the ability to cast a > given Rune spell in the first place, you have to go to the correct center of > worship? I think that's absolutely right, and really good. > I guess I tend to believe that while all the initiates know the myths, only > the Rune levels get the Gnostic knowledge to cast rune magic based on them. > And that's on a myth by myth basis. I don't completely agree with this last bit. Initiates can cast Rune Magic, after all, and *every* homespun version of RP I've seen so far has provisions for initiates to regain their RP (usually 1/HHD or 1/Seasonal HD). Mine will, too. I think there should be a system of increasing levels of personal harmony with the divinity, which would let the initiate regain magic at a lesser or greater rate. You might say, for initiates : roll each of the 5 cult skills once (it's an abstraction of the Seasonal HD HQ). Priests roll Ceremony as an extra skill. any fumble Initiates : no RPs this season RuneMasters : 0 RPs : unless Ceremony; no RPs this season each failure 0 RPs each success 1 RP regained each special 1D2 RPs regained each critical 1D3 RPs regained officiating priest bonus site + 2 to total shrine * 2 small temple * 3 medium temple * 5 great temple * 10 Initiates of associated cults, and other favoured lay members might be able to roll only one cult skill, or more if particularly blessed. Initiates who are close to their god might have multipliers, or bonuses applied. Rune Lords start with double gain (and high cult skills). If pious and worthy (ie if they perform HQs of note, etc.), they might get * 3; then * 4; etc... If you're learning magic, you'd gain RPs equal to the amount of POW sacrificed, but you'd definitely have to succeed in at least 3 of the cult skills to be able to contact the god with your POW sacrifice. Being an officiating priest would give the above bonuses, from the mass worship which forges the link to the magic in the first place, but there surely should be a difference between a character's personal relationship with a god, and his position of political power within a hierarchy. There could be a humakti initiate, for example, so pious and devote that he's *severed his relationship* with his cult hierarchy, and is a complete loner; but his relationship with Humakt and understanding of humakti Rune magic might be so profound that he'd recover RPs much faster than any but the most powerful official Swords. Conversely, a corrupt, politmongering, Lunar sympathising, scum-sucking, chief priest of Orlanth might get the ritual boost from having that position during cult worship, but otherwise regain his magic very slowly (from continually failing to do the HQ properly). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #88 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. 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