From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #126 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Friday, August 6 1999 Volume 02 : Number 126 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] Knockback Re: [RQ-RULES] Knockback [RQ-RULES] Phantom caves [RQ-RULES] Sandy's Rules Re: [RQ-RULES] Phantom caves RE: [RQ-RULES] Phantom caves Re: [RQ-RULES] Phantom caves [RQ-RULES] Phantom caves Re: [RQ-RULES] Phantom caves RE: [RQ-RULES] Phantom caves Re: [RQ-RULES] Phantom caves [RQ-RULES] Pavis and the Big Rubble Re: [RQ-RULES] Illusory Gold and Women RE: [RQ-RULES] Illusory Gold and Women RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 16:57:02 GMT From: mikec@room3b.demon.co.uk (Michael Cule) Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Knockback For smashing weapons I use a rule from the aborted RQ4 draft: a special with a blunt weapon does the maximum Damage Add possible. Yes, this does make Trolls even more formidable. So what? - -- Michael Cule Actor And Genius AKA Theophilus Prince Archbishop Of The Far Isles Medieval Society Arms Purpure An Open Book Proper: On the Dexter Page an Alpha Or On the Sinister an Omega Or. Motto Nulla Spes Sit in Resistendo (Resistance is Useless). Ask me about the Far Isles: Better Living through Pan-Medieval Anachronisms. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:06:06 EDT From: MurfNMurf@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Knockback aevans5@csc.com writes:An earlier post about RQ3 not having rules for special hits with slashing weapons or smadhing weapons led me to rereading the rules for specials... What extra/different rules, if any, do other members of the list use for Special hits for non-impaling weapons? Well,if you dont have access to RQ2, the specials there work like this: *Slashing:The weapon damage is rolled twice.Damage bonus is rolled once. The weapon is stuck in the target's body.To extract the weapon, the attacker must succeed with a roll equal to 1/2 attk%.Failure indicates the weapon remains stuck until next melee,when the character can try again at his normal SR with the weapon.A Fumble means the weapon is jerked from the attacker's hands. Crushing: Weapon damage is rolled normally +rolled damage bonus + pts of dmg equal to maximum damage bonus. If the attacker has no damage modifier,then no Crush occurs. * I also call this a Chop. -Ken- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:26:53 -0400 (EDT) From: simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] Phantom caves Robert McArthur : The ability to make real phantom objects does not IMO imply the ability to create phantoms of real objects not being there. Where has the rock which occupies the volume of the cave gone? Does this mean I can make an illusion of me not being there? Does this mean I'm invisible? What happens if I move? Am I immune to damage? What about spirit combat? Personaly I think that this use of the illusion spells is invalid. It's not reasonably deducable from the existing descriptions of the illusion spells. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 17:59:59 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Sandy's Rules Craig Pays' site (hccweb.demon) appears to be gone - does anyone have an alternative link for Sandy's latest rules? Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Failure is not an option, it's integral to the o/s. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:08:03 -0700 From: "Timothy Byrd" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Phantom caves > The ability to make real phantom objects does not > IMO imply the ability to create phantoms of > real objects not being there. When an illusion of say a boulder is created, what happens to the air that was occupying that space? If you are by a river, can you not create an illusion of a fish in the water? If so, what happens to the water in the space the fish now occupies? Given that, why not create an illusion of air where rock used to be? - -- Tim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 18:16:41 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Phantom caves >> The ability to make real phantom objects does not >> IMO imply the ability to create phantoms of >> real objects not being there. >When an illusion of say a boulder is created, what happens to the >air that was occupying that space? If you are by a river, can you >not create an illusion of a fish in the water? If so, what happens to >the water in the space the fish now occupies? Given that, why not >create an illusion of air where rock used to be? That's called Form/Set Rock, and you need somewhere to put the extra rock. Water and air will move out of the way without too much persuasion. Besides, the rules sez you can't make an illusion of something not being there (I think it says this under divine illusion spells). Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Failure is not an option, it's integral to the o/s. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:13:39 -0700 From: "Timothy Byrd" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Phantom caves > That's called Form/Set Rock, and you need somewhere to put the extra rock. > Water and air will move out of the way without too much persuasion. Besides, > the rules sez you can't make an illusion of something not being there (I > think it says this under divine illusion spells). Isn't Form/Set Rock permanent, as opposed to an illusion which only lasts until reality reasserts itself? (Going back to the original question on this thread, if I allowed an illusionist to create a hole, and people went inside, I think the illusion would "spit them out" when it went away. Reality would just say - "They are next to the rock, not inside it.") So if I have a sealed bottle of brandy, I can't put an illusion of a peach inside it? (Where does the extra liquid go?) As for air and water moving out of the way, do illusions fade slowly in and out of existence? If they appeared suddenly, displacing a decent volume of air or water might have a concussion effect. If an illusion is temporary reality, then here are a couple other situations: A trickster makes a long duration illusion of a goose that lays golden eggs. The eggs get melted down with some regular gold to make wheels, jewelry and whatnot. What happens when the illusion expires? Similarly, what if a trickster made an illusion of a woman and got her pregnant? What if the illusion didn't expire until there were grandchildren? - -- Tim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 19:48:18 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] Phantom caves RU>The ability to make real phantom objects does not RU>IMO imply the ability to create phantoms of RU>real objects not being there. RU>Personaly I think that this use of the illusion RU>spells is invalid. It's not reasonably deducable RU>from the existing descriptions of the illusion spells. RU>Simon Hibbs I strongly support Simon on this point. A good many people seem to have misunderstood the phrase "in Glorantha, an illusion is Real", to mean, "in Glorantha, an illusion changes Reality". This simply is not so! Unlike other game system and story worlds where an illusion seems real until it is dis-believed, in Glorantha an illusion lasts until it is finished. It is still an ephemera, and only the touch aspect can do damage or even be felt. An illusion can mask the truth, but it can never change it. Bob Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 19:51:38 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Phantom caves RU>When an illusion of say a boulder is created, what happens to the air that RU>was occupying that space? RU>If you are by a river, can you not create an RU>illusion of a fish in the water? If so, what happens to the water in the RU>space the fish now occupies? It continues to flow through, unless illusory touch pushes it back. Throwing illusory touch on a rock to make it not touch is simplistic and shouldn't work. Bob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:32:02 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Phantom caves >So if I have a sealed bottle of brandy, I can't put an illusion of a >peach inside it? (Where does the extra liquid go?) Yes, you can, my analogy was flawed. You just create an illusion of the surface of a peach. The brandy's still there. You can put an illusion of a rock around yourself, and appear to be a rock, and even feel like a rock, but it's still you inside. >If an illusion is temporary reality, then here are a couple other >situations: A trickster makes a long duration illusion of a goose >that lays golden eggs. The eggs get melted down with some >regular gold to make wheels, jewelry and whatnot. What happens >when the illusion expires? Similarly, what if a trickster made an >illusion of a woman and got her pregnant? What if the illusion >didn't expire until there were grandchildren? If it were anything other than a trickster, I wouldn't say any of the above would happen (no pregnancy, etc.) but as Trickster owns the illusion rules, he gets much better illusions. I'd allow all of the above, and when the illusion expires, so do all products thereof. You're talking about a *huge* number of illusion & extension spells, though! Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Failure is not an option, it's integral to the o/s. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 12:04:12 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Phantom caves Timothy Byrd wrote: > > If an illusion is temporary reality, then here are a couple other > situations: A trickster makes a long duration illusion of a goose that lays > golden eggs. The eggs get melted down with some regular gold to make > wheels, jewelry and whatnot. What happens when the illusion expires? > Similarly, what if a trickster made an illusion of a woman and got her > pregnant? What if the illusion didn't expire until there were > grandchildren? Just because the woman is 'real', doesn't mean that she can become pregnant. Any 'issue' of such a union would be a seperate illusion, afterall. And the caster would have on heck of a time controlling both in a realistic fashion. - -- talmeta@cybercomm.net - Heretic & Dilettante ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta (note change!) Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:43:36 -0700 From: Brad Furst Subject: [RQ-RULES] Pavis and the Big Rubble I received my Pavis and the Big Rubble reprint today. I recall someone weeks ago had inquired about the expected schedule. I *like* it. I suspect many will regret not ordering such while it is available. I like the new art; the old art remain intact. The layout is easier to read. I have not sought for any omissions or typographic errors, but none jumped at me on this first pass through. Brad Furst esoteric@teleport.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 16:14:10 +0100 From: "MHopkins" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Illusory Gold and Women > From: Timothy Byrd > As for air and water moving out of the way, do illusions fade slowly in and > out of existence? If they appeared suddenly, displacing a decent volume of > air or water might have a concussion effect. The air/water stays where it is, with the illusion over it (just like an illusion over something solid would cover it). Phantom touch would mask it's feel (as it would a solid) but not remove what is already there. > If an illusion is temporary reality, then here are a couple other > situations: A trickster makes a long duration illusion of a goose that lays > golden eggs. The eggs get melted down with some regular gold to make > wheels, jewelry and whatnot. What happens when the illusion expires? Keeping in mind what I have said above, the eggs are initially filled with air - the illusion would make them feel heavy and metallic and if cut in half appear solid throughout, but the illusion is masking the air that is actually in there. For the egg to appear to melt the trickster would have to be present to manipulate the illusion (he would also have to be present to make it set again after). Depending on its volume the illusory melted egg would either mask some (or all) of the molten real gold or the molten real gold and some air. Therefore when it is poured you will either end up with a volume equal to the real gold or the illusory gold. Therefore when the illusion ends you will end up with no effect if there was more real gold or some of the gold will vanish (with a definite cut of point). If the gold is still in sold blocks (eg wheels, ingots) then one may well be a small (but still a solid mass) due to it being created at the cut off point between real and illusion. If this block has been used for jewelry it could be interesting! This variation in expected volumes may be noticed by astute goldsmiths! OR you could rule that the illusory gold remains sitting on top of the real gold (as it is air and so floats above the gold) and the second scenario above is true. If there is no trickster present to manipulate the illusory golden egg it would sink into the real gold as deeply as it could go and sit there (again, masking real gold and/or air) and not melt. If there was sufficient depth of gold to cover it this may go unnoticed! Otherwise the egg would just sit there and not melt. If there was a large volume of gold then when it was poured the golden egg would almost certainly be noticed again. > Similarly, what if a trickster made an illusion of a woman and got her > pregnant? What if the illusion didn't expire until there were > grandchildren? I think that the trickster's illusory woman would be the closest thing on Glorantha to an inflatable rubber doll :-) ! With an illusory woman there could be no chance of a pregnancy - due to the absence of any fertility within her/it?. In fact, without illusionary intelligence the woman would have to be 'programmed' or controlled to do other than just stand/lie there! Of course, the trickster could always manipulate the illusion to make a bump grow and could then create an illusory baby... All IMO Meirion *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 16:54:47 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Illusory Gold and Women >For the egg to appear to melt the trickster would have to be >present to manipulate the illusion... I don't see why, if the trickster has an "Illusory Gold Egg" spell, it should behave exactly like a gold egg. Trickster illusions are the most powerful that there are, so I'd allow a lot more leeway with the specialist Trickster illusions than I would with, say, a sorceror trying to emulate them. After all, Illusionist sorcerors can do this with the Illusion art, as described in Sandy's rules (coming soon to a web site near me), so tricksters should definitely be able to create autonomous illusions. Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Failure is not an option, it's integral to the o/s. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #126 ************************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. 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