From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #146 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Tuesday, September 7 1999 Volume 02 : Number 146 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS RE: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI [RQ-RULES] FW: RPGA hostile takeover [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : Re: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : Re: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : [RQ-RULES] FW: RPGA hostile takeover [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 08:50:06 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI Bob: >The point was that it is stupid for the god to provide the >miracle, leave your Pow intact, and still kill your body. >One of these three points is WRONG. WRONG in YOUR OPINION. Seemingly not in everyone elses. Philip Hibbs http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 11:35:18 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: [RQ-RULES] FW: RPGA hostile takeover A friend sent me this worrying report from Gen Con UK. Philip Hibbs http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. > -----Original Message----- > > For those of you who did not know (which is probably none), 3 years ago > TSR > went chapter 11 adn was bought by WoC. The RPGA was left in a state of > flux, > but the regular staff and volunteers carried on, and so a Euro GEn Con was > > managed that year. > > Since then the RPGA has been allowed to keep it's independence (a v.good > thing), however with in the last week, Wo0C have forcefully taken over > both the > DCI (their own equivalent group to the RPGA) and the RPGA. Up to this > point > the RPGA have always been able to defend the rights of the roleplayer. > WoC > are already moving behind the scenes to make major changes which will most > > likely result in RPGA prices (for membership, cons., and sponsered events) > > becoming far more expensive, and the use of the steering committee > (volunteered > by none RPGA/TSR/WoC employed individuals) scrapped - or their advice at > least ignored. As a result, after the award ceremony the following > announcements > were made :- > > John Brown, who has been the RPGA coordinator for 6 years now (and who > lives, works, sleeps RPGA) has resigned his post effectiv first thing this > morning. > > The RPGA steering committee have all resinged on mass. > > The main group of volunteers (including the likes of Ratty, Twin, Sad (I > think) > and Jan have all withdrawn their support. > > The above, along with several of the other major names in the UK > roleplaying > scene are all quiting from the RPGA as members. > > All these people would only have taken steps like this as a last resort > for they > know how damaging this is to the UK roleplaying scene, which just shows > how serious WoC attitude has become towards the RPGA. > > G. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 07:54:06 -0400 (EDT) From: simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : Andrew Barton : >' .....If the >adventurer must lose an amount of current POW points which equals >his total current POW characteristic, then the wish comes true but >the adventurer's soul will end up at its appointed place on the god plane. >The adventurer is dead.' I read this as meaning that the god takes the adventurer's full POW in the form of the adventurer's complete soul. For me this is analogous to a person beting their freedom on a chariot race, loosing and ending up being a slave of the person they wagered against. The winner now owns their body, in the form of the complete person. in the same way, I think the god takes the person's full POW, which is forfeit, in the form of the person's intact soul bound in service. >On the face of it, this does seem to say that a D100 roll equal to POW has >- -both- effects, the character's POW going to 0 and his spirit going to >the god's service. Appearances can be deceptive. >So, there aren't many references to what happens to a spirit >with POW 0, but all there are do say that it ceases to exist. That is my understanding of the intent of the game designers. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 07:57:35 -0400 (EDT) From: simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : > The point was that it is stupid for the god to provide the miracle, leave >your Pow intact, and still kill your body. One of these three points is >WRONG. Either there is no miracle, you have zero Pow, or you are still >alive. You assert that one of them has to be wrong, but the rules do not say anything about this. > You have taken the discussion out of context. I have demonstrated from >the rules that in most cases, a Pow=0 does not kill the spirit, only the >body. Please quote any instances in which the rules say that a person can be reduced to zero POW and still exist. The only case mentioned in RQ3 is Soul Waste, which clearly says the person's soul ceases to exist. The only case mentioned in the rules _contradicts_ your assertion. In fact there is one other case - the creation of an undead creature requires the loss of all POW. i.e. The character annihilates it's immortal soul. Another case where the identificaton of POW=Soul is explicit. However, I can't seriously believe you intend that DI casualties join the ranks of the undead. >Andrew Barton and I have both shown that the DI roll equal to the >current Pow drops the Pow to zero. You have shown no such thing. Only explicit phrasing in that form in the rules would show such a thing. You assertions about it do not change that. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:19:55 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : > I read this as meaning that the god takes the adventurer's full POW in > the form of the adventurer's complete soul. For me this is analogous > to a person beting their freedom on a chariot race, loosing and ending up > being a slave of the person they wagered against. The winner now owns their > body, in the form of the complete person. in the same way, I think the > god takes the person's full POW, which is forfeit, in the form of the > person's intact soul bound in service. Pow is not equivalent to soul, the two can be separated. A person can lose all of their Pow in a DI, the Pow loss kills them, and then the god takes them home. > >So, there aren't many references to what happens to a spirit > >with POW 0, but all there are do say that it ceases to exist. wrong > That is my understanding of the intent of the game designers. I clearly showed two references that say that when any stat goes to zero, the body dies, but they do not say that the soul ceases to exist. Only Soul Waste destroys the soul, that is why it is worded different from the others. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:34:53 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : > Please quote any instances in which the rules say that a person can be reduced > to zero POW and still exist. The only case mentioned in RQ3 is Soul Waste, which > clearly says the person's soul ceases to exist. The only case mentioned in > the rules _contradicts_ your assertion. The fact that it is a DISEASE description proves that it is the exception. You have the duty to prove that a disease rule applies to all other causes of Pow loss. Bob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 07 Sep 99 08:41:45 +0000 From: mike bate Subject: [RQ-RULES] FW: RPGA hostile takeover A friend sent me this worrying report from Gen Con UK. Philip Hibbs http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. > -----Original Message----- > > For those of you who did not know (which is probably none), 3 years ago > TSR > went chapter 11 adn was bought by WoC. The RPGA was left in a state of > flux, > but the regular staff and volunteers carried on, and so a Euro GEn Con was > > managed that year. > > Since then the RPGA has been allowed to keep it's independence (a v.good > thing), however with in the last week, Wo0C have forcefully taken over > both the > DCI (their own equivalent group to the RPGA) and the RPGA. Up to this > point > the RPGA have always been able to defend the rights of the roleplayer. > WoC > are already moving behind the scenes to make major changes which will most > > likely result in RPGA prices (for membership, cons., and sponsered events) > > becoming far more expensive, and the use of the steering committee > (volunteered > by none RPGA/TSR/WoC employed individuals) scrapped - or their advice at > least ignored. As a result, after the award ceremony the following > announcements > were made :- > > John Brown, who has been the RPGA coordinator for 6 years now (and who > lives, works, sleeps RPGA) has resigned his post effectiv first thing this > morning. > > The RPGA steering committee have all resinged on mass. > > The main group of volunteers (including the likes of Ratty, Twin, Sad (I > think) > and Jan have all withdrawn their support. > > The above, along with several of the other major names in the UK > roleplaying > scene are all quiting from the RPGA as members. > > All these people would only have taken steps like this as a last resort > for they > know how damaging this is to the UK roleplaying scene, which just shows > how serious WoC attitude has become towards the RPGA. > > G. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RFC822 header - ----------------------------------- RECEIVED: from SF_Database by POP_Mailbox_-1275503280 ; 06 SEP 99 12:00:16 UT Received: by orpheus (mbox jsatch) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Mon Sep 6 11:59:57 1999) X-From_: daemon Mon Sep 6 11:53:07 1999 Received: from lists.imagiconline.com (lists.imagiconline.com [204.85.32.11]) by orpheus.hosts.netdirect.net.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07262 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 11:53:06 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by lists.imagiconline.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id GAA73125; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 06:45:19 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com) Received: by lists.imagiconline.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 6 Sep 1999 06:45:19 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.imagiconline.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id GAA73116 for runequest-rules-outgoing; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 06:45:18 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com) Received: from mail02.tnt.co.uk ([194.75.33.99]) by lists.imagiconline.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id GAA73109 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 06:45:14 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk) Received: by TNT_SERVER_25 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 11:35:18 +0100 Message-ID: <017DD95F5D17D21189FF0008C728E305DA1852@TNT_SERVER_25> From: "Hibbs, Philip" To: "'Glorantha Digest'" , "'RQ Rules Digest'" Subject: [RQ-RULES] FW: RPGA hostile takeover Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 11:35:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 07 Sep 99 08:41:59 +0000 From: mike bate Subject: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : Andrew Barton : >' .....If the >adventurer must lose an amount of current POW points which equals >his total current POW characteristic, then the wish comes true but >the adventurer's soul will end up at its appointed place on the god plane. >The adventurer is dead.' I read this as meaning that the god takes the adventurer's full POW in the form of the adventurer's complete soul. For me this is analogous to a person beting their freedom on a chariot race, loosing and ending up being a slave of the person they wagered against. The winner now owns their body, in the form of the complete person. in the same way, I think the god takes the person's full POW, which is forfeit, in the form of the person's intact soul bound in service. >On the face of it, this does seem to say that a D100 roll equal to POW has >- -both- effects, the character's POW going to 0 and his spirit going to >the god's service. Appearances can be deceptive. >So, there aren't many references to what happens to a spirit >with POW 0, but all there are do say that it ceases to exist. That is my understanding of the intent of the game designers. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RFC822 header - ----------------------------------- RECEIVED: from SF_Database by POP_Mailbox_-1275496089 ; 06 SEP 99 14:00:07 UT Received: by orpheus (mbox jsatch) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Mon Sep 6 13:59:48 1999) X-From_: daemon Mon Sep 6 13:04:41 1999 Received: from lists.imagiconline.com (lists.imagiconline.com [204.85.32.11]) by orpheus.hosts.netdirect.net.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04403 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 13:04:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by lists.imagiconline.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id HAA75594; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 07:54:08 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com) Received: by lists.imagiconline.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 6 Sep 1999 07:54:08 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.imagiconline.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id HAA75585 for runequest-rules-outgoing; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 07:54:08 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com) Received: from rmx08.globecomm.net (rmx08.iname.net [165.251.8.85]) by lists.imagiconline.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id HAA75580 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 07:54:07 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com) From: simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com Received: from weba7.iname.net by rmx08.globecomm.net (8.9.1/8.8.0) with ESMTP id HAA13412 ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 07:54:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by weba7.iname.net (8.9.1a/8.9.2.Alpha2) id HAA16514; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 07:54:06 -0400 (EDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <990906075406FX.26363@weba7.iname.net> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 07:54:06 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 07 Sep 99 08:42:09 +0000 From: mike bate Subject: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : > The point was that it is stupid for the god to provide the miracle, leave >your Pow intact, and still kill your body. One of these three points is >WRONG. Either there is no miracle, you have zero Pow, or you are still >alive. You assert that one of them has to be wrong, but the rules do not say anything about this. > You have taken the discussion out of context. I have demonstrated from >the rules that in most cases, a Pow=0 does not kill the spirit, only the >body. Please quote any instances in which the rules say that a person can be reduced to zero POW and still exist. The only case mentioned in RQ3 is Soul Waste, which clearly says the person's soul ceases to exist. The only case mentioned in the rules _contradicts_ your assertion. In fact there is one other case - the creation of an undead creature requires the loss of all POW. i.e. The character annihilates it's immortal soul. Another case where the identificaton of POW=Soul is explicit. However, I can't seriously believe you intend that DI casualties join the ranks of the undead. >Andrew Barton and I have both shown that the DI roll equal to the >current Pow drops the Pow to zero. You have shown no such thing. Only explicit phrasing in that form in the rules would show such a thing. You assertions about it do not change that. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RFC822 header - ----------------------------------- RECEIVED: from SF_Database by POP_Mailbox_-1275496088 ; 06 SEP 99 14:00:08 UT Received: by orpheus (mbox jsatch) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Mon Sep 6 13:59:49 1999) X-From_: daemon Mon Sep 6 13:07:54 1999 Received: from lists.imagiconline.com (lists.imagiconline.com [204.85.32.11]) by orpheus.hosts.netdirect.net.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05631 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 13:07:48 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by lists.imagiconline.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id HAA75669; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 07:57:37 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com) Received: by lists.imagiconline.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 6 Sep 1999 07:57:37 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.imagiconline.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id HAA75660 for runequest-rules-outgoing; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 07:57:36 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com) Received: from rmx07.globecomm.net (rmx07.iname.net [165.251.8.75]) by lists.imagiconline.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id HAA75655 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 07:57:35 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com) From: simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com Received: from weba7.iname.net by rmx07.globecomm.net (8.9.1/8.8.0) with ESMTP id HAA06997 ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 07:57:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by weba7.iname.net (8.9.1a/8.9.2.Alpha2) id HAA16735; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 07:57:35 -0400 (EDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <99090607573515.15701@weba7.iname.net> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 07:57:35 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #146 ************************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.