From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #166 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Wednesday, December 1 1999 Volume 02 : Number 166 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS [RQ-RULES] Re: Christianity in RQ [RQ-RULES] Metric Issues Re: [RQ-RULES] Christianity in RQ RE: [RQ-RULES] Metric Issues Re: [RQ-RULES] Sandy's Mystic Rules Re: [RQ-RULES] Sandy's Mysticism Rules Re: [RQ-RULES] Metric Issues RE: [RQ-RULES] Sandy's Mysticism Rules Re: [RQ-RULES] Metric Issues Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Christianity in RQ Re: [RQ-RULES] Christianity in RQ RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 18:20:17 -0000 From: Sergio Mascarenhas Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: Christianity in RQ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 15:15:03 +0000 From: Michael Cule Subject: [RQ-RULES] Christianity in RQ >Just something I've been jiggling around in my mind for a while: how do >we depict a monotheistic faith like Christianity with a basically >polytheistic gamesystem like RQ? >I've been thinking about how you might use RQ to run a semi-historical >game in medieval Europe where the dominant religious view was that >of 'there's only one God and we've got him'. I suppose that you're thinking about medieval Christianism (I meam, pre-reformation movement which changed things a lot). We must make a distinction here: "High level", theological, scholar Christianism is one thing; popular Christianism is a different thing. They require different approaches. And i suppose that one must chose one of the two is going to be considered "true". The Christianism of the theologists is almost monotheistic. I don't say that it was strictelly monotheistic because (at least the Catholics) it encopassed the belief in the Trinity (Father, Son, and Holly Gost). This sets it appart from Islamism that's a truelly monotheistic religion. Popular Christianism was (is) not a true monotheism. In fact, it included a leftover of the pre-christian politheistic religions, in the form of the cult of the saints. >It doesn't seem right to me to >give Christian priests a bundle of spell effects and spirits they >can summon If you accept that what's "true" in your game is popular Christianism, you may represent it just like a politheistic religion where the saints take the place of the different gods. And isntead of spells, there are miracles. You must account for this. In fact, the deads of the saints were like "institutionalized" miracles, something similar to spells. >so what I came up with was the following. >1) Christians are innately resistant to magic (which is after all, the >Devil's work). Well, I suppose that the way people used to look at things was exactly the opposite: people were (are) innately receptive to magic, because of the original sin. They were very subject to the workd of the Devil. What was hard was to achieve sainthood, in other words, a state where one was not touched by the Devil. >They have a base chance of POW x 5% that any spell cast >at them will simply fail to work. This applies to *good* Christians >only. Those with unconfessed guilts on their soul will loose the >protection. I suppose that this is most of the population. Why not treat sainthood the way that CoC treats SAN? This is an attribute that changes according to what a person does: evil deeds lower it, and make the person more subject to the works of the Devil; good deads raise it, and allow people to resist the Devil's temptations. Let's call it Faith, something you mention bellow. >2) No magic will work on Holy Ground. None. Particularly saintly >Christians will carry around a personal No Magic Zone that drives >back the Devil's workings. Converselly, some places, artifacts, etc. ,may be consecrated to the Devil. >3) Christians get POW gain rolls for resisting magic as well as for >overcoming other people in magic or spirit combat. You have to change your terminology. It does not make sense to speak of "magical" or "spirit" combat. Instead of "spirit" use "soul". Instead of "magical combat" use "temptation", or "exorcism". >Since about the >only chance a Christian has of offensively using magic or spirit >combat is priests doing Excorcism this isn't as big a bonus as you >might think. >4) Christians can call on God or the Saints for Divine Intervention. If >they fail they loose a point of POW. If they succeed they loose no >POW at all unless they roll their POW exactly and are carried off to >join the Heavenly Choir. God (because He prefers his followers to have >Faith) will tend to answer calls for help in ways that could be perfectly >natural. In fact, the Soul should take the place of POW. There's a problem here: unlike POW, we cannot fix a "size" for a soul. I mean, there are no bigger (18 point) souls, and smaller (3 points) souls. This leads me to what I said above: instead of using MP based notions, the best approach is based on Faith which is treated like CoC's SAN. Sergio *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 10:39:26 -0800 From: "DCFitch1" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Metric Issues Here's a really dumb question. RQ rules (lbs. and distances) are in the metric system....anyone know the conversions? Dan Fitch *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:10:08 -0600 From: "Paul Stolar" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Christianity in RQ You might want to look at Ars Magica. They have : Divine magic from 1 god (heal) fairy magic (glamor and illusion) Demonic Hermetic (like sorcery) You might consider these guideline: Divine is really powerful but very rare The others are more prevalent Paul Stolar paulstolar@sprintmail.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Cule To: Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 9:15 AM Subject: [RQ-RULES] Christianity in RQ > Just something I've been jiggling around in my mind for a while: how do > we depict a monotheistic faith like Christianity with a basically > polytheistic gamesystem like RQ? > > I've been thinking about how you might use RQ to run a semi-historical > game in medieval Europe where the dominant religious view was that of > 'there's only one God and we've got him'. It doesn't seem right to me to > give Christian priests a bundle of spell effects and spirits they can > summon so what I came up with was the following. > > 1) Christians are innately resistant to magic (which is after all, the > Devil's work). They have a base chance of POW x 5% that any spell cast > at them will simply fail to work. This applies to *good* Christians > only. Those with unconfessed guilts on their soul will loose the > protection. > > 2) No magic will work on Holy Ground. None. Particularly saintly > Christians will carry around a personal No Magic Zone that drives back > the Devil's workings. > > 3) Christians get POW gain rolls for resisting magic as well as for > overcoming other people in magic or spirit combat. Since about the only > chance a Christian has of offensively using magic or spirit combat is > priests doing Excorcism this isn't as big a bonus as you might think. > > 4) Christians can call on God or the Saints for Divine Intervention. If > they fail they loose a point of POW. If they succeed they loose no POW > at all unless they roll their POW exactly and are carried off to join > the Heavenly Choir. God (because He prefers his followers to have Faith) > will tend to answer calls for help in ways that could be perfectly > natural. > > -- > Michael Cule > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 22:10:02 -0500 (EST) From: Terje Tollisen Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Metric Issues There are leveral table and calculators on the net. I'm not sure if this is the best one, but it has wan you need. http://www.french-property.com/ref/convert.htm - -Terje Tollisen - ------Original Message------ From: "DCFitch1" To: Sent: November 30, 1999 6:39:26 PM GMT Subject: [RQ-RULES] Metric Issues Here's a really dumb question. RQ rules (lbs. and distances) are in the metric system....anyone know the conversions? Dan Fitch *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. __________________________________________________ FREE Email for ALL! Sign up at http://www.mail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:06:42 -0500 From: "Jim Bickmeyer" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Sandy's Mystic Rules From "Dammit" Jim Gould > I've got a player using them. They definitely need tuning down. I disallow Centipede, and don't allow more than one critical per skill per session to count for gaining mysticism. Well, I haven’t disallowed Centipede. The PC with it becomes a human chainsaw through a formation. I am considering changing my perspective on consecutive hits. I think that attacking every SR is too much. Especially when everyone else has to add ad least their DEX SR to any action. I might try consecutive attacks at 1 SR + Dex SR. This will take some of the edge off. Also, I am considering that if the Mystic has to move more than a step the consecutive attacks end. Nikk Effingham responded with > I'm not sure if I quite understand you here, but if a mystic calls up his martial arts styles, has a fight, and then wanders on to another location where he has another fight, in the second fight he must still bring up his styles again. The situation I was working with is in a complexe where the PC will have a series of fights. So they aren’t so much as wandering, they are moving with purpose and attacking or definding as required. > From what I understand since he has stopped fighting then his martial arts styles will drop. I thought the rules said that the Mystic needed to keep consitrating on the style. When they performed an action other than that which is compatiable with the style the drop the style. So using the style Centipide the Mystic can parrying or dodge, but if he has to move quitly up to the guard not paying attention, the style is dropped. And Nikk wrote more on Mystic powers and styles. To address his concerns of over powerful spell casting, instead of a 10 MP to 1 skill point loss, how about making it 1 to 1 or even 1 MP to 2 Skill. Would that reduce the power levels some what? Nikk you asked what the Mysticism cost to adopt a weapon to a style. The version I have says “Any weapon can be adopted by spending a Mysticism”. To me that is one point of Mysticism to adopt a weapon to a style. Jim Bickmeyer *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 12:15:05 +0800 From: "Matthew Barron" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Sandy's Mysticism Rules Just some personal game thoughts on Mysticism. I only found Sandy Peterson's rules on the web a few months ago and I must say when I read them I nearly fell off my chair. This may seem mildly blasphemous - I've been playing on and off since 1983 and I can barely write the words - but I really don't like these rules. They're long, complicated and seem to be way powerful. However my firmest reason for not using them is that they don't seem to convey the feeling of eastern style mysticism they were intended to. In my campaign - a non Gloranthan campaign - we use a system which combines the Land of Ninja Ki skill system with notions of techniques as found in RQ 4. To my way of thinking a mystic hanging back and invoking powers and then wading into combat means the mystic is hardly different to a conventional RQ character - they just have mysticsim "cast on themselves" instead of battle magic or rune magic. Indeed, Sandy's mysticism seems to work like a powered up form of Rune magic, with the user sacrificing "mysticism points" instead of POW. Why introduce mysticism if it's just going to work that way? Mysticism should reflect a notion that the mystic understands and uses a given skill in a spiritual way - something which the vast majority of characters tend to ignore. I don't mind many of the things which Sandy's rules allow a mystic to do, just the way in which it is done. In our campaign mysticism is tied very closely to our version of illumination - an illuminated character is much more likely to understand the universe in the way necessary to master the mystical aspects of a skill. For my campaign in particular this is an important relationship - the illuminant sees the synchronicity between the physical and the spiritual. Mystical skills make use of this synchronicity - they are powerful because the spirit of the user is focussed on the action of the skill not distracted by the concerns of the world or the emotions and desires of the individual. One thing that mystics never are is emotional, disparate wastrels. There is Storm Bull and there is mysticsim but there is no mystic Storm Bull! We haven't fully synthesised our house rules on this subject into a single written form but I would give it a go if people thought it might be useful to them. Thanks Matt B. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 02:40:24 EST From: SPerrin@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Metric Issues In a message dated 11/30/1999 10:49:43 AM Pacific Standard Time, dcfitch1@email.msn.com writes: << Here's a really dumb question. RQ rules (lbs. and distances) are in the metric system....anyone know the conversions? >> 2.2 lbs to the kg, 39 inches to the meter. There are a few more decimal places, but this is close enough. These days I tend to just use the terms "weight", as in "I am 100weight" and paces. It provides a relative value while retaining the right feel. If I understood the "stone" system I might use that for weight instead. Steve Perrin, whose current version of the RQ rules (prepare for major changes) are available to anyone who asks... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 08:57:11 -0000 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Sandy's Mysticism Rules >an illuminated character is much more likely to >understand the universe in the way necessary >to master the mystical aspects of a skill. Illumination is a form of mysticism, but it is by no means the only form, and is a path that already has specific benefits. Sandy's mysticism rules are another set of benefits that you get by following a different mystical path. Philip Hibbs http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 16:53:05 +0800 From: "Matthew Barron" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Metric Issues >>Steve Perrin, whose current version of the RQ rules (prepare for major changes) are available to anyone who asks...<< I'm asking. Please could I see them. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 15:15:18 +0000 From: Michael Cule Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Christianity in RQ In message <01BF3B5F.8E919260.sermasalmeida@mail.telepac.pt>, Sergio Mascarenhas writes >And isntead of spells, there are miracles. You must account for this. In >fact, the deads of the saints were like "institutionalized" miracles, >something similar to spells. No, this is what I wanted to avoid. A miracle is a singular thing by it's nature. Even if it is a repeated effect (like supposed cures at Lourdes) it is dependent on God and the Saint not on the worshipper. You can ask but you can't expect always to get. Which is why the DI bonus but no spells. - -- Michael Cule *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 15:25:35 +0000 From: Michael Cule Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Christianity in RQ In message <005101bf3b88$0eb50a80$699dbfa8@gumb>, Paul Stolar writes >You might want to look at Ars Magica. I have. >They have : > >Divine magic from 1 god (heal) Now here I think you're wrong. There are no rules that I recall for miracles except the incredibly rare ones given to characters with True Faith. But every Christian community gets a bonus to resisting and frustrating magic. >fairy magic (glamor and illusion) >Demonic >Hermetic (like sorcery) > >You might consider these guideline: > >Divine is really powerful but very rare >The others are more prevalent I was thinking more like Divine is more powerful but very limited. It's almost everywhere and that's why the others are so rare. (But perhaps this is just *too* much like AM.) - -- Michael Cule *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #166 ************************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.