From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #171 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Wednesday, December 8 1999 Volume 02 : Number 171 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] Open seas RE: [RQ-RULES] Open seas RE: [RQ-RULES] Open seas RE: [RQ-RULES] Open seas Re: [RQ-RULES] Open seas Re: [RQ-RULES] old RQ III supplements [RQ-RULES] Re: request for Steve Perrin house rules [RQ-RULES] Re: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #170 [RQ-RULES] Wanted: Sage Advice Re: [RQ-RULES] Wanted: Sage Advice Re: [RQ-RULES] Wanted: Sage Advice Re: [RQ-RULES] Open seas RE: [RQ-RULES] Open seas Re: [RQ-RULES] Open seas Re: [RQ-RULES] Wanted: Sage Advice RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:09:21 GMT From: Davison Nick Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Open seas Bob Stancliff > I have no reason to believe that every sailor who knows the spell will > want to cast it if they can. You also seem to suggest that a spell caster > has -no idea- whether he cast his own spell successfully, or not... I think > that is cracked. But what about if he/she fumbles? Do you believe that no ships are now lost to the Closing itself? (because none would be if every captain kept casting Open Seas until he succeeded) Nick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:45:23 -0000 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Open seas >You also seem to suggest ... >I think that is cracked. I wasn't suggesting anything as though I thought it was right, I was merely proposing several (mutually contradictory) ways that magic in a game world might work, as an illustration that you shouldn't take rules mechanics and extrapolate game-world truths from all their implications. For example, there are at least three systems for representing sorcery in Glorantha, if you count the new Hero Wars mechanics. In RQ3, you can't drop a passive temporal spell at will, you have to dispel it. In Sandy's, you can. In Hero Wars, you get a bonus to dispelling your own temporal magic, and none of it requires concentration. Which one is the Objective Gloranthan Truth? Philip Hibbs http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:55:31 -0000 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Open seas Bob: >The reason Open Seas has returned sea travel at all is because >sailors have confidence that it is safe to leave the harbor. Nick: >Do you believe that no ships are now lost to the Closing itself? How do you distinguish between "The Closing", and "Random Encounter: Sea Monster"? Philip Hibbs http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:06:37 GMT From: Davison Nick Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Open seas > Nick: > >Do you believe that no ships are now lost to the Closing itself? > > How do you distinguish between "The Closing", and "Random Encounter: Sea > Monster"? I guess that you can't. RW oceans are dangerous enough without the addition of sea monsters. (mostly through the weather but also piracy to a varying degree in different locations/time periods) However a sea captain that in some way 'knows' that he has successfully cast Open Seas might a little disappointed to meet one. Nick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:01:44 -0500 (EST) From: Terje Tollisen Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Open seas Nick >Do you believe that no ships are now lost to the Closing >itself? >(because none would be if every captain kept casting Open Seas >until he succeeded) It might be that the power of the Closing changes form place to place, or maybe it changes a bit in all places over time (or maybe is "moves up and down" like the tide). Perhaps you might need a special or even critical to be able to sail out at certain places at certain times. But noone knows where any when a successful ritual isn¡¯t gonna be enough... - -Terje Tollisen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com?sr=mc.mk.mcm.tag001 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 09:05:00 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] old RQ III supplements Matthew Barron wrote: > > I'm looking to buy old and/or out of date RQIII stuff. I'm especially interested Griffin Island but I'll take a look at most stuff - except the Troll oriented stuff (I've got what I need there). > I don't know if this sort of thing is a mailing list faux pas or not but I'm kinda getting desperate. I've ranged about as far as I reasonably can across the web and drawn a blank. Take a peek at my website. Anything I don't have that you're looking for, I can find. :) - -- talmeta@cybercomm.net - Heretic, Dilettante, & God-Machine ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 08:02:42 -0000 From: "Dawson Ricky (RD)" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: request for Steve Perrin house rules Guess I forgot to mention that I would prefer to have it in Word 97 version. Thanks again. Ricky *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 11:20:53 -0500 From: Frederic Moulin Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #170 >From: "Matthew Barron" >Subject: [RQ-RULES] old RQ III supplements > >I'm looking to buy old and/or out of date RQIII stuff. I'm especially >interested Griffin Island but I'll take a look at most stuff - except the >Troll oriented stuff (I've got what I need there). >I don't know if this sort of thing is a mailing list faux pas or not but >I'm kinda getting desperate. I've ranged about as far as I reasonably can >across the web and drawn a blank. > Humm, Did'nt Avalon Hill clear up its RQ stuffs about 6 monthes ago... I remember getting an e-mail and buying a whole lot of old RQ3 stuffs... even Daughters of Darkness... heheheee :-) Maybe their site is still up http://www.avalonhill.com/faxformn-z.htm. The other alternative is to wait about 10 years until Issaries Inc. reprint out-of-date materials. I just got Pavis/Big Rubbles for RQ2... and it was well worth the waiting. I hope they'll reprint my favorite campaign "Borderlands" soon too. Frederic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 12:13:34 +0800 From: "Matthew Barron" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Wanted: Sage Advice I've just restarted my RQ GM'ing career about twelve months ago and I'm running into a repeated difficulty. New players with new characters. Only one of my regular players has played RQ before and one of my players has never roleplayed before. The problem in a nutshell is this - they keep getting wasted, beaten, pulped, annihilated etc. So the request is this - can I have suggestions on: A) Keeping the party alive - I know a lot of GM's happily kill characters who are stupid and in days gone by I've been one of them. But I can't punish players for not knowing the rules or for just not thinking like professional adventurers. Also, since I'm the only one who knows all the rules the whole game has to stop to generate a new character. B) Tailoring the challenge to the party - in a recent adventure the party got wasted by a sorceror with no attack spells and a handful of orc guards. Neither the orcs nor the mage had any skills above 75% C) Encouraging the party to do the professional things - get better armour and some training with their damn weapons. And using their damn magic. I mean should I remind them about Bladesharp (yes things are THAT desperate!!!) or should I kill a few just to get the message across? In desperandum Matt B *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 23:37:53 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Wanted: Sage Advice Matthew Barron wrote: > > C) Encouraging the party to do the professional things - get better armour and some training with their damn weapons. And using their damn magic. I mean should I remind them about Bladesharp (yes things are THAT desperate!!!) or should I kill a few just to get the message across? What I'm doing in my campaign right now is I've added a slightly more experienced NPC who gives advice on tactics, strategy, and how to better handle certain circumstances. I only have 4 (out of 7) newbie (to RQ) players, but even the others played in an out-of-control powerfest game - - they're alot weaker this time around, and know it. Lucien, Knight-Initiate of Pelor will get cacked eventually, but only after the group has it's feet under them. - -- talmeta@cybercomm.net - Heretic, Dilettante, & God-Machine ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 13:22:12 +0800 From: "Matthew Barron" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Wanted: Sage Advice >> What I'm doing in my campaign right now is I've added a slightly more experienced NPC who gives advice on tactics, strategy, and how to better handle certain circumstances. I only have 4 (out of 7) newbie (to RQ) players, but even the others played in an out-of-control powerfest game - - they're alot weaker this time around, and know it. Lucien, Knight-Initiate of Pelor will get cacked eventually, but only after the group has it's feet under them.<< I do this as a matter of course whenever I introduce a new party to a new campaign. However this should only be for hints otherwise it goes like this - I (as GM) give the party the layout. The party makes a hash of it. I (as NPC) give them the solution. The party tells me (as GM) what they were just told by me(as NPC). Maybe I've made the NPC(s) too powerful/well informed. However, thanks for the suggestion. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:41:59 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Open seas > But what about if he/she fumbles? On a fumble you could say that the casters believes they succeeded. > Do you believe that no ships are now lost to the Closing itself? Everyone knows that the Closing will probably kill them, though they might survive, and everyone knows that a successful casting of a trivial one point sorcery spell will protect them, so anyone in their right mind will cast the spell two or three times in a row to insure their safety. Idiots don't become sailors... for long. I don't believe ships are lost to the Closing, just to storms, pirates, monsters, etc. All that the Closing really did was to insure that a problem would occur, very quickly. Open Sea only protects you from the supernatural disasters caused by the Closing itself. It does nothing against the mundane disasters that happen from normal causes. Bob Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:54:19 -0000 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Open seas >anyone in their right mind will cast the spell two >or three times in a row to insure their safety. I think you're still making the mistake of extrapolating Gloranthan world situations from RQ game mechanics. Philip Hibbs http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:09:39 GMT From: "Nikk Effingham" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Open seas Nick > >Do you believe that no ships are now lost to the Closing >itself? > >(because none would be if every captain kept casting Open Seas >until he > succeeded) No-one knows because everyone always uses the Open Seas ritual. You could always do a test by sailing out without doing the ritual, but then who would be mad enough to give it a go? Would you? Mechanics wise, I think everyone knows when the Open Seas ritual is not performed properly, and that failing it means you have to delay your journey until the ritual is successfully cast again the next day. IMO, Nikk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:28:39 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Wanted: Sage Advice > Matt B > A) Keeping the party alive - I know a lot of GM's happily kill characters who are stupid and in days gone by I've been one of them. But I can't punish players for not knowing the rules or for just not thinking like professional adventurers. > B) Tailoring the challenge to the party - in a recent adventure the party got wasted by a sorceror with no attack spells and a handful of orc guards. Neither the orcs nor the mage had any skills above 75% > C) Encouraging the party to do the professional things - get better armour and some training with their damn weapons. And using their damn magic. I mean should I remind them about Bladesharp (yes things are THAT desperate!!!) or should I kill a few just to get the message across? Actually you do see the problem and the start of a solution. RQ is one of the easiest games to kill players in. A game like Champions was intentionally designed to keep them alive. If they are really beginners, don't send them on combat missions. Send them on jobs that get them attacked by two or three foes that can be handled. Feral broos (no disease) are one choice, or trollkin, or (at worst) just one moderately tough foe with ringmail. Make the primary mission thinking or searching. Have several small encounters strung out over a distance so that they can be defeated piecemeal. Add NPC's to the party as examples. They don't have to be better than the players, just competent. When actions are declared say that Biff is casting Protection followed by Bladesharp (if the players can get access to both). The players will get a clue. Since beginners have to cast their own spells, keep their weight way down; Cuirb. or Bezainted, one 2-hand weapon and no shield, and one smaller weapon or a bow as backup. Get them to double or triple team foes, one-to-one combat is for masters, and leave the foe behind once he is down. Finishing a foe insures he will not get back up, but dropping foes faster than they drop you is more demoralizing. He may have Heal and get back in the fight, but if he doesn't, he is as good as dead. Remember that there is safety is numbers. If the players can take a second PC or NPC there will be more target to attack and the PC's don't have to be the target every round. It is much easier to kill an NPC and the players say "wow, that could have been me"! At the lower levels a 20% or 30% skill difference is noticeable, so keep the foes near the players abilities. Early on, the foes should be better than the players, but be outnumbered for some reason. Later in the campaign you can reverse this and let them fight from the other side. Player spells should be able to equalize a fight, but not shift it too far the other way. Be very careful with Befuddle if the party doesn't have at least one Dispel 2. Most important, everyone is there to have fun, so if you roll a 10 HP head critical against a player who cannot afford Resurrection or cannot get there in time, cheat. Drop the crit to a special, reduce the damage if you have to, incapacitate the player without killing him. Let his teammates save him after the fight. Bob Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #171 ************************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.