From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #173 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Thursday, December 16 1999 Volume 02 : Number 173 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Christianity in RQ [RQ-RULES] NPC Traits? Re: [RQ-RULES] NPC Traits? Re: [RQ-RULES] NPC Traits? RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Christianity in RQ Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Christianity in RQ RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Christianity in RQ RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Christianity in RQ RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Christianity in RQ RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Christianity in RQ [RQ-RULES] Re: Steve Perrin's RQ [RQ-RULES] Newbie with questions. RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:34:49 +0100 From: "German Cantabrana Gonzalez" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Christianity in RQ I think that there is a Cult as Christianity in RQ: The invisible God. An omnipotent God that don't act in the world, with his Saints and his faithfull cultists with no mark of his existence. If Christians want to make magic they need to have some interior power (sorcery) cos their god is not going to give them (Runic) magic. Germán *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:27:11 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Maranci Subject: [RQ-RULES] NPC Traits? I'm working on adding some new NPCs (and a new NPC record sheet) to my web site. In the process of designing the new NPC sheet, I was hit with an idea and would appreciate some feedback. Would it be helpful to GMs to have personality traits (a la Pendragon) for NPCs? I've always been against the use of traits for PCs (no offense to David Dunham) -- the mechanism feels too restrictive. That's not an objection for NPCs, however, and I suspect that the additional personality information might be helpful to GMs. Likewise, it could be convenient for a GM to have something to roll against when PCs present NPCs with a test of character (I mean, personality). Of course, the Pendragon traits might not be the best choice. On the other hand, this isn't aimed only at Glorantha -- I plan to eventually post non-Gloranthan RQ NPCs. What do you think, sirs? -->Pete - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Maranci pmaranci@tiac.net Malden, MA FRP adventures, art and more: http://www.tiac.net/users/maranci/rq.htm *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 14:11:39 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] NPC Traits? Peter Maranci wrote: > > Of course, the Pendragon traits might not be the best choice. On the other > hand, this isn't aimed only at Glorantha -- I plan to eventually post > non-Gloranthan RQ NPCs. I'm currently using the Traits from Nephilim in my game. Not as either/or as the Pendragon set. - -- talmeta@cybercomm.net - Heretic, Dilettante, & God-Machine ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:29:44 EST From: MurfNMurf@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] NPC Traits? Well, there's a pretty long list of Personality Traits available in the old OOP _Elfquest Companion_ on page 16. First you roll 1D6 to determine the number of rolls to be made for that character, then roll % die that number of times to determine traits. The table has 100 entries, and messing around with it you can wind up with some pretty odd combinations. -Ken- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:17:56 -0000 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Christianity in RQ >If Christians want to make magic they need to have >some interior power (sorcery) cos their god is not >going to give them (Runic) magic. Absolutely not. I don't think Christian miracles are in any way similar to RQ sorcery. They are more like Heroquest powers, IMO. Philip Hibbs http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:08:53 EST From: SPerrin@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Christianity in RQ In a message dated 12/15/1999 1:28:36 AM Pacific Standard Time, philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk writes: << >If Christians want to make magic they need to have >some interior power (sorcery) cos their god is not >going to give them (Runic) magic. Absolutely not. I don't think Christian miracles are in any way similar to RQ sorcery. They are more like Heroquest powers, IMO. >> In my short-lived (intentionally) one-god campaign, and with the survivor of that campaign I have in my current one, I use the miracles like Divine Intervention. The PC prays for something useful to happen, makes his prayer and ritual rolls, and something happens that is useful--how useful depending on how successful the rolls were. Steve Perrin, who has discovered a taste for free-form magic... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 23:01:33 +0100 From: "German Cantabrana Gonzalez" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Christianity in RQ Philip Hibbs wrote: >Absolutely not. I don't think Christian miracles are in any way similar to >RQ sorcery. They are more like Heroquest powers, IMO. No, no. Christian miracles are similar to Invisible God's Saints powers. Sorcery is an human kind of magic that christians can choose. German *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 23:05:24 +0100 From: "German Cantabrana Gonzalez" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Christianity in RQ >In my short-lived (intentionally) one-god campaign, and with the survivor of >that campaign I have in my current one, I use the miracles like Divine >Intervention. The PC prays for something useful to happen, makes his prayer >and ritual rolls, and something happens that is useful--how useful depending >on how successful the rolls were. Yes, that's correct. And a human can learn other interior magic. Here in Spain in the middle age everybody was christian (in christian Spain, of course) and a lot of people use talismans, potions, pagans prays etc. German *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 11:03:17 +0800 From: "Matthew Barron" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Christianity in RQ Hi everyone, I've been holding off on writing about this thread because I wasn't sure I had anything worth saying. Now I think I might - I hope it comes out coherent 1. Christians casting magic - I agree that divine would be hard to equate. The Christian God (emphasis on the singular) is not typically seen as doing deals with believers - trading POW for magic is not terribly Christian in style. Spirit magic might be OK - especially if it is characterised as Folk Magic, ie. something that people comonly learn to do in the every day universe, a kind of metaphysical 'knack' for something. Individual priests or religious orders might object to it but it wouldn't necessarily be broad band heretical (at least not in the Dark Ages or the Middle Ages) Sorcery could be a case by case basis - in fact sorcerors and proto scientists may be indistinguishable - they both research, achieve effects that surprise and amaze and are generally reclusive and mysterious. If you ran your campaign in the late Middle Ages/Early Renaisance, your character could be a sorceror apprentice to Leonardo DaVinci - "what's the difference between taxidermy and necromancy?" to the authorities not much. Also, sorcery became a secret study that loads of literate people got "sucked into". Look for example at the Templars - they begin their existence as an order of devout knights (Rune Lords?) hoping to liberate the Holy Land from the infidel. A few hundred years later they're denounced as a brotherhood of sorcerors, practicing black arts and are excommunicated one and all. How much of this is true and how much is internal Church politics would be source of great adventures no matter which side your characters played on - if they even took sides. Saintly powers are best handled like HQ I think - there's no reason to make your average Christian possess an evenly remote possibility of being immune to magic. After all that's why they obsessively burned witches - they were scared witless of their magic. Although, Christians in the Middle/Dark Ages tended to invoke God or more frequently, the saints, as protection against all manners of things, including magic. Perhaps some kind of measure of devotion, akin to Illumination or Elan from Stormbringer could be used. A Christian could add to this score through devout actions and invoke it like DI - ie. your Devotion(or Holiness or whatever) score is 65%. Wanda the witch jumps out of the shadows and tries to place a curse on you(actually a Intensity 5 Palsy). you invoke the Lord, begging his protection and roll 1d100. you roll 50% and so you succeed - God grants you protection and your resistence to the palsy is doubled. Your Devotion score now drops to 50%. As an addition to this rule you could have patron saints who are adopted using Devotion points - eg. St John the Divine as a patron to those seeking knowledge and revelation. 50 Dev pts. to adopt as patron. From then on St John can be invoked to provide insight at difficult times - ie. limited Divination. Devotion could be built up by devout acts - prayer, tithing, studying scritpure. It could also be reduced by sinful acts - this would be a good way for GM's to moderate the Christian use of magic - sure your Christian character can study magic but they lose 5pts of Dev for every point of Spirit magic, 10pts for every sorcery skill which they possess and 5 points for every spell. Then they lose a point of Dev every time they cast a spell. 2. Monotheism vs. Religious diversity: This is perhaps the most important point raised so far, IMO. In spite of what seems to have been claimed, monotheistic religions are not homogenous - not everyone believes the exact same things even if they believe in the same God. The subtleties are usually where the conflicts arise - "The Devil is in the details" as they say. What's been left out of these discussions is the way in which subtle aspects of Christian belief can mold and shape the course of whole populations - and provide adventure motivations for characters - Crusades and Holy Wars - loads of these get fought in the Dark/Middle Ages and through into the rennaisance. The Thrity Years War is between Catholics and Protestants, nasty, bloody and they both believe in the same God with the same Son(Jesus) and mostly the same holy texts(the Bible). Religious Orders - loads of religious orders were founded in the period who conflicted constantly, even ones which ostensibly held the same saints as patrons. If you include crusader orders then it should be possible to recreate a kind of Christianised Rune Lord - the Templars and the early Jesuits(who were founded by a mercenary captain who had a religious experience and devoted his life to Mary). Different orders could have different ideas about magic, what's acceptable and what's not. Of course all of this presupposes the absolute dominance of Christianity throughout Europe. This never happened - no one's raised the question of Islam and even more important to medievil magic, Judaism. The Jews were systematically victimised and accused of sorcery in the Dark/Middle Ages - in fact all the way through into this century. An important point when looking at the Judaism/Christianity/Islam nexus - these are essentially three religions that form one meta faith. They all share the same history up to their points of theological divergence. They endorse most of the same virtues and condemn an interesting array of sins. 3. Who is God?: This is the question which I think the GM has to answer first - who is God? What's he like? What's he into? Is God really there? If he isn't, then what's happening with Christians? Are they just a bunch of deluded obsessives who are really anti magic? If God is there what's his attitude to magic? maybe he doesn't mind in which case we've got the deluded obsessives again. Or maybe he does mind - in which case Christians with lax attitudes to magic have real problems a la the Devotion stat listed above. If God is there is he the God of the Jews(Qaballa?), the Christians (Catholics? Prostestants? Anabaptists? Quakers? Gnostics? Druse? etc.) is he the God of Islam (Sunni? Sufi? other?). Does he endorse or despise murder? magic? mercy to enemies? love? holy war? saints? I really feel that if you want to run a Dark/Middle Ages with a genuine magical dimension these are the sorts of questions you need to answer. From your fundamental answers about who your montheistic God is you get most of your other answers about what to use what to disallow and what's going on. Matt B. PS My thinking on the Devotion stat and afdopting patron saints owes a great deal to Sandy Petersen's western sorcery rules and the additional saints rules I have read on various websites. To all those who are responsible I give you your credit - you know who you are. PPS I apologise if my broad brush theology offended anyone's religious sensibilities, especially Jewish or Islamic folk. I realise that belief is much more subtle than I have suggested here. Subtlety is really my main point anyway. PPPS I'm not so worried about offending Christians because I am one and I offend them all the time. Sometimes I even get forgiven. It's not politics. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 11:23:20 +0800 From: "Matthew Barron" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Christianity in RQ Hi again, something I meant to mention and forgot to add is that there's some really good fantasy with Christian ideals at the base. For the purposes of developing a role playing cosmology I' thinking of CS Lewis's Perelandra series especially. Other writings of Lewis as well as the old standard - Tolkien(another Christian) - might also be helpful. Stephen Lawhead is another possibility - although I've never read his works so I can't recommend him especially. Matt B *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 14:31:07 +0800 From: "Matthew Barron" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: Steve Perrin's RQ I'm a busy beaver today. Query: is anyone thinking of using Steve Perrin's RQ which was distributed a couple of weeks ago? I'm quite taken with them and plan to switch my campaign basically over - obviously some of my favourite vers. 2/3/4/SandySorc/house rules will stay in the campaign. However, to this end I offer this idea - variable Folk Magic with the points of effect equal to the number of successes rolled during the casting. Eg. a shaman character with a Folk Magic skill (I forget the exact name Steve gave it) 80% attempts to cast Bladesharp. He rolls 34% which is two successes so he ends up with Bladesharp 2. The upper limit of casting would not matter too much since it's limited by the maximum number of successes. The maximum limit of Folk Magic that a character can have running at one time is then #pts <= INT. I realise that doing it this way would limit the power of Folk magic but in my campaign that's OK 'cause it's not in a magic ultra rich environment like Glorantha. I run a more skill focussed world. Also, it raises the importance of focussing crystals, matrices etc. What do people think? Matt B. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:33:42 -0700 From: "Fiorito, David" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Newbie with questions. Hi all, I am new to this list but an old-time RQ player (been playing since RQ2 was new). I have a couple questions: 1) I understand that Steve Perrin has a new set of rules - where can I get a copy? 2) Has anyone played Ray Turney's Fire and Sword Rules - how are they? 3) I downloaded the RQ4 manuscript but have not read through it - should I bother - is it good? Cheers, Dave Fiorito *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #173 ************************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. 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